I think people maybe have a rose tinted view of what Britain was like in the past and that if we had more of a monocultural like in the past then the good old days would come back.

Spoiler though - there were no “good old days”.

Infant mortality was 10 times what it is now.
People died of TB in their thousands.
Real poverty was widespread.
Children were battered senseless at home and in schools.
World Wars occurred.
Nuclear weapons were dropped.
People had to have surgery without anaesthetic.
Huge swathes of the population had little to no education.
Crime rates were through the roof.

I could go on and on and on.

The good old days were really pretty shite.

“ Employment isn't really an argument I'd invoke, however I do think that bringing in cheap labour from other countries pushes down wages.”

There’s no evidence of that. Labour from overseas actually costs more and is utilised because of need for skills and labour.

On your other points, I get it. I just don’t feel the same and I’m not bothered about what demographic make up the country has. The UK exports its people and culture plenty and always has, so if people from other countries want to come and live and work here that’s fine by me.

The people who built the country are dead, and you could go back before the Norman conquest if you want to be pure about the indigenous people of these islands, and then even back before Roman times. To me it just doesn’t matter and I have no issue with change because it’s inevitable and always has been.

I'd say the need for skills and labour is only there because of how we do things in the first place, as well as the circumstances of the immigrants making it convenient for them to be hired.  It still pushes down wages in general across the board IMO.

For example, I know a hotelier on Arran who openly admits he hires Europeans because he can pay them minimum wage and have them live on site.  This works well for him as he has reliable, hard working staff who don't need much time off.  It also works well for the Europeans in question because they are young and see it as part of a travelling/adventure experience.  Unlike many native Scots, they aren't trying to mate, set down roots or pay a mortgage at this stage.  They don't mind socialising with those in the same boat in the evenings, with the rest of their life revolving round the hotel, then they can take their savings home.  This works well for the hotelier and the Europeans, but not so much for the young Arran natives who want to have enough money to eventually buy a house, get married and provide for a family.  They won't be able to do this on minimum wage, so they go to the mainland, never to return.

You can say that labour from abroad costs more, but if that's the case (and I don't believe it always is - training a native person on the job or putting them through qualifications costs a fair bit) then it can still have the same wage-lowering result, although this isn't always the case with every type of immigration.

As for Brits moving abroad, I'd rather that didn't happen either to be honest.

Those who built the country are indeed dead, but I'm a descendent of them and it means something to me.  I suppose it just depends how far back you go.  I look at photos of older generations of my family who I never met, but still feel a connection to areas they lived in, jobs they had, graveyards they are buried in and buildings they lived in.  It interests me.  Feeling a connection to those who built the roads, ploughed the fields, shaped our laws and worshipped in the churches, fashioned the culture etc before us is just the same thing IMO.  I accept that most people don't share my mindset in this regard, but it's just the way I am I suppose.

I think people maybe have a rose tinted view of what Britain was like in the past and that if we had more of a monocultural like in the past then the good old days would come back.   I don't think they do.

Spoiler though - there were no “good old days”.

Infant mortality was 10 times what it is now.  Advances in science have changed this, nothing to do with monoculture being bad.
People died of TB in their thousands.  Advances in medicine/science have changed this, nothing to do with monoculture being bad.
Real poverty was widespread.  We became more civilised and compassionate, plenty reasons for this but no evidence of it being our enrichment due to multiculturalism.
Children were battered senseless at home and in schools.  Not always, but again there's nothing to show this was because of a monoculture.
World Wars occurred.  Yep, not a fault of a monoculture.  In fact, nowadays with society being so fragmented, would our people really have come together to fight WW2 for example?
Nuclear weapons were dropped. Not the fault of monoculture.
People had to have surgery without anaesthetic.  Aye, because we didn't know how to do it?  This wasn't a fault of monoculturalism though?
Huge swathes of the population had little to no education.  Until the reformation!
Crime rates were through the roof.  A blanket statement for a subject which has many complexities.  The idea that multiculturalism has helped stop crime is laughable though

I could go on and on and on.

The good old days were really pretty shite.

The above points aren't down to us having a monoculture though.  Please see my text above in red.

Spoiler - No one is saying the old days were better than now, but that doesn't contradict my points that immigration/multicuralism/diversity are more negative than positive.

This is an interesting discussion mate. Will come back to it ASAP. I am at the time of the day where I become hard pressed!

I’m sure you mean time of the month.

For me it’s not about colour . I’m on record on here that I’m pro controlled immigration.
It does have a bearing on wages though as lads who work in our local big factory say they haven’t a hope in hell of getting a decent pay rise as the bosses know they can call on any amount of over sea cheap labour. Do I blame the immigrants? No I blame the system for allowing multi national companies to pay buttons and advertise on their adverts in local papers that tax credits  are available. When did Tysen Krupp become the government? Same with Amazon. They bus loads of EEs in from Wolverhampton to their Rugeley depot thus keeping wages down as a bloke working there just to amass a few quid ain’t interested in taking the bosses on for a pay rise.
Regarding immigration I think we all know the U.K. evolves. So certain things become the norm after a while.I think the original commonwealth people have evolved in to darker shade Brits. The newer set may well do but they also seem to stay in their little communities. So then we have a parallel way of living going on.Also if some of the new immigrants dislike our culture then what’s the point of coming to the party ?
Look at people of my generation. Les Ferdinand, wrighty, Bruno etc. There would not be a bloke I know say they were not English.Same with Rashford etc.This whole debate is about culture as much as anything else. I personally can feel more in common with a Sikh than a white Uber liberal.
I like my culture and I’m not afraid to say it. I live close to Wolverhampton but the town is a lot different to Wolvo . I know lads who are Sikh who dislike what some of the new immigration being.In Heath Town which years ago was white but then the Jamaicans moved in the now Jamaican /Black British are peed off with the new immigration.
A black lad who lived in my town but went back to West Bromwich was moaning about all the EEs taking over.Racism is not just black and white. There are whole communities of people who are not white who don’t like any given other group.A lot  of the trouble in London with black gangs is obviously drug related but the African mobs and the Jamaican and British black mobs do not see eye to eye.
My neighbours on the one side are black . They are no different to me . Her Dad worked at the pit . So culturally wise we are similar in how we have been brought up . Maybe a answer could be the commonwealth immigration loved the U.K and it’s institutions . Maybe some of the newer arrivals dont

Anyone judging a person on colour or race is an absolute numpty.

.... the seps judge people on their political persuasion.

Anyone judging a person on colour or race is an absolute numpty.

Completely agree, Buc.

It's a sign of ignorance and a lack of intelligence IMO.

Quote from: Buc on November 18, 2020, 05:24:11 pm

Anyone judging a person on colour or race is an absolute numpty.

Good job nobody on here does that then.

I'd be very disappointed if that were the case.

A