Quote from: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 01:09:25 pm

Quote from: Hardliner on October 21, 2020, 01:05:36 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 12:26:27 pm

Quote from: Jtc on October 21, 2020, 12:22:47 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 10:35:12 am

And JTC, the SNP are polling in the high 50s for Holyrood and Westminster.

It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.

Polls are only a indication of how people are honking at the moment in time. Also they can be skewed by askin an question a certain way or asking a certain type of person.You held pole position on the grid in 14.
That will be 60% thinking the SNP and Greens are best in Scotland (if it happens).Not the best in the UK or saying they want a Indy ref . Of course they will attach a Indy ref to their policy, they have to.I doubt that will be why X amount will be voting for them though
Think about it. In England people have voted the Tories as the main party. Do you seriously think a lot want to vote Tory?The stark fact is a decent amount would not but faced ( pre CV) with a choice of Tories or a plan off Labour which seems extreme to a lot of their natural supporters they vote Tory because what they have they want to keep and basically are not prepared to risk their house and job on a unproven set of policies in the U.K.They have probably noticed when the said policies have been tried elsewhere they have brought a disastrous result .

You also have to consider the independence polling. A majority now consistently back independence.

If an election campaign is fought with a manifesto commitment to a referendum front and centre and then there is a landslide victory, there will be a referendum.

The numbers backing independence now mirror the level of SNP and Green support.

Unionists have got to face up to reality. Or don’t, I’m fine with that.

I don't think it's fair to say that a majority now consistently back independence.  All we are going by are opinion polls, commissioned by those with a pro-Independence agenda, with loaded lead up questions and final question, small sample sizes, large numbers of undecideds by polling companies who on the run up to the referendum consistently showed results which were way more favourable to separation than the result was.

As well as this, these polls only span a period of 5 months, where Nicola Thatcher the Pint Snatcher has a huge PR advantage with her daily briefings.  Not only this, but the emotions of remainers are running high with Brexit having taken place and some loose ends still being tied.  Also, none of the issues such as the UK single market, a hard border, currency, the SNP's push for children to be able to choose their own gender, reality of Scotland even being allowed to enter the EU if it becomes a Nation.

A quick example of how these polls are riddled with spoofery is the apparent notion that support for separation has went up 5% in the space of a few days for no apparent reason.  They are not an accurate reflection of the opinion of Scots.

There's nothing to suggest they'll remain a great deal longer than the current 5 months of which we are supposed to base splitting up the Nation on.  In fact, the polls even showed support for separation going down other than the latest mad outlier which was presumably commissioned by Paul McKenna (going by the lead up questions anyway).

In short, this polling is bullsh1t.

The Times and YouGov do not have an independence agenda. The polling experts such as Professor Curtice do think it is fair to say that the view is now consistently Yes.

Polling has an excellent track record n Scotland and Unionists didn’t doubt them when they yielded results which are pleased them.

I kindly refer you to the following link, which shows that far from having an 'excellent track record', they actually consistently showed the gap between No and Yes to be far lower than the 11% it turned out to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2014_Scottish_independence_referendum

The Times and YouGov may not have an independence agenda, but Agnes Robertson the humble crofter does.  I also do not believe Curtice has stated that these 5 month opinion polls are a true reflection of the mood of Scotland, although I'm happy to be proven wrong on this one.

Quote from: Jtc on October 21, 2020, 12:22:47 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 10:35:12 am

And JTC, the SNP are polling in the high 50s for Holyrood and Westminster.

It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.

Polls are only a indication of how people are honking at the moment in time. Also they can be skewed by askin an question a certain way or asking a certain type of person.You held pole position on the grid in 14.
That will be 60% thinking the SNP and Greens are best in Scotland (if it happens).Not the best in the UK or saying they want a Indy ref . Of course they will attach a Indy ref to their policy, they have to.I doubt that will be why X amount will be voting for them though
Think about it. In England people have voted the Tories as the main party. Do you seriously think a lot want to vote Tory?The stark fact is a decent amount would not but faced ( pre CV) with a choice of Tories or a plan off Labour which seems extreme to a lot of their natural supporters they vote Tory because what they have they want to keep and basically are not prepared to risk their house and job on a unproven set of policies in the U.K.They have probably noticed when the said policies have been tried elsewhere they have brought a disastrous result .

You also have to consider the independence polling. A majority now consistently back independence.

If an election campaign is fought with a manifesto commitment to a referendum front and centre and then there is a landslide victory, there will be a referendum.

The numbers backing independence now mirror the level of SNP and Green support.

Unionists have got to face up to reality. Or don’t, I’m fine with that.

I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.

The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.

Quote from: Hardliner on October 21, 2020, 01:18:13 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 01:09:25 pm

Quote from: Hardliner on October 21, 2020, 01:05:36 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 12:26:27 pm

Quote from: Jtc on October 21, 2020, 12:22:47 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 10:35:12 am

And JTC, the SNP are polling in the high 50s for Holyrood and Westminster.

It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.

Polls are only a indication of how people are honking at the moment in time. Also they can be skewed by askin an question a certain way or asking a certain type of person.You held pole position on the grid in 14.
That will be 60% thinking the SNP and Greens are best in Scotland (if it happens).Not the best in the UK or saying they want a Indy ref . Of course they will attach a Indy ref to their policy, they have to.I doubt that will be why X amount will be voting for them though
Think about it. In England people have voted the Tories as the main party. Do you seriously think a lot want to vote Tory?The stark fact is a decent amount would not but faced ( pre CV) with a choice of Tories or a plan off Labour which seems extreme to a lot of their natural supporters they vote Tory because what they have they want to keep and basically are not prepared to risk their house and job on a unproven set of policies in the U.K.They have probably noticed when the said policies have been tried elsewhere they have brought a disastrous result .

You also have to consider the independence polling. A majority now consistently back independence.

If an election campaign is fought with a manifesto commitment to a referendum front and centre and then there is a landslide victory, there will be a referendum.

The numbers backing independence now mirror the level of SNP and Green support.

Unionists have got to face up to reality. Or don’t, I’m fine with that.

I don't think it's fair to say that a majority now consistently back independence.  All we are going by are opinion polls, commissioned by those with a pro-Independence agenda, with loaded lead up questions and final question, small sample sizes, large numbers of undecideds by polling companies who on the run up to the referendum consistently showed results which were way more favourable to separation than the result was.

As well as this, these polls only span a period of 5 months, where Nicola Thatcher the Pint Snatcher has a huge PR advantage with her daily briefings.  Not only this, but the emotions of remainers are running high with Brexit having taken place and some loose ends still being tied.  Also, none of the issues such as the UK single market, a hard border, currency, the SNP's push for children to be able to choose their own gender, reality of Scotland even being allowed to enter the EU if it becomes a Nation.

A quick example of how these polls are riddled with spoofery is the apparent notion that support for separation has went up 5% in the space of a few days for no apparent reason.  They are not an accurate reflection of the opinion of Scots.

There's nothing to suggest they'll remain a great deal longer than the current 5 months of which we are supposed to base splitting up the Nation on.  In fact, the polls even showed support for separation going down other than the latest mad outlier which was presumably commissioned by Paul McKenna (going by the lead up questions anyway).

In short, this polling is bullsh1t.

The Times and YouGov do not have an independence agenda. The polling experts such as Professor Curtice do think it is fair to say that the view is now consistently Yes.

Polling has an excellent track record n Scotland and Unionists didn’t doubt them when they yielded results which are pleased them.

I kindly refer you to the following link, which shows that far from having an 'excellent track record', they actually consistently showed the gap between No and Yes to be far lower than the 11% it turned out to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2014_Scottish_independence_referendum

The Times and YouGov may not have an independence agenda, but Agnes Robertson the humble crofter does.  I also do not believe Curtice has stated that these 5 month opinion polls are a true reflection of the mood of Scotland, although I'm happy to be proven wrong on this one.

The polls versus the 2014 outcome are pretty much spot on because there are no Don’t Knows in the final outcome.

Curtice has stated that these polls now reflect a consistent position for the Scottish electorate.

It has been 13 months since the union polled over 50%. Now down to 39%.

Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one.  I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.

Quote from: Ellondandy on October 21, 2020, 03:15:52 pm

Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one.  I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.

Add the English vote of 418000 when 75% voted no the last time now there's nothing like that will vote for the union they even turn up in good numbers in our marches for indy.
Maybe 50% . because of Europe.

Quote from: Buc on October 21, 2020, 03:24:52 pm

Quote from: Ellondandy on October 21, 2020, 03:15:52 pm

Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one.  I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.

Add the English vote of 418000 when 75% voted no the last time now there's nothing like that will vote for the union they even turn up in good numbers in our marches for indy.
Maybe 50% . because of Europe.

Was it over one billion at the last indy march?

Quote from: Jtc on October 21, 2020, 02:40:50 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 02:09:22 pm

I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.

The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.

Pre Covid anyone who wanted a job in England could get one, maybe the rate might need raising on the minimum wage but the jobs were there. Unfortunately we have a element of our people who think work is a choice and expect the state to fund them not to work. Crackers imo.Im sure Scotland has its fair share of these. The proof about the jobs? Easy. Why are so many EEs able to get jobs but a bloke over the road from the factory can’t or won’t. No blame attached to the EEs or any immigrant by me. I blame the successive governments who have allowed people to duck out of work

I don’t care if a small percentage of the population ducks out of work. They won’t have the life I have and I wouldn’t swap places with them.

The cost to society in terms of cash is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Benefits are a drop in the ocean compared to the tax which is not being collected from business.

So I guess I just don’t care if a small percentage of people sit on their arses and do very little.
If they are Ill fine but a moral compass has been broken so I do care.
I pay my tax and want it spent on the common good, the weaker members of our society and the vulnerable. Not some work shy layabouts. Let’s face it most jobs these days you can sit on your cracker pressing a few buttons so it’s hardly hernia material is it!
Hope your Indy Scotland don’t mind picking the bill up for these folk.
Agree about multi nationals and the likes though