Quote from: Hardliner on November 07, 2020, 01:03:24 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on November 07, 2020, 09:52:47 am

Quote from: Jtc on November 07, 2020, 09:06:37 am

Quote from: PeterGrant on November 06, 2020, 11:06:47 pm

How do we define working class in the UK in 2020?

A good start would be people who go to work . It’s a cultural thing as well . People who are supposed to represent us have allowed millions of unskilled workers to be used by capitalism to crush the indigenous population and the immigrants who arrived prior to Blair's open door policies . When I say crush I’m talking about wages and rights. We can console ourselves though watching our flat screen TVs which were cheap as they were imported 

Lots of people who go to work are now considered middle class.

I don’t consider any worker to be “unskilled”.

Wages and rights are better than at any time in history. Some rights were rolled back under Theresa May but still. The main problem is the cost of living and inadequate provisions such as state pensions.

As for flat screen TVs, is this really still the metaphor for people living beyond their means? What other kind of TVs are available? Or should less affluent people just not have TVs?

Flat screen TVs are not even expensive anymore. It’s about £300 for a 50”. I bought my Samsung in 2008 and it’s still fantastic 12 years later.

The idea that the least well off shouldn’t have the basics of modern living is all about keeping people down, when we should be encouraging people up.

It's all very well arguing about class and how we define class or skill sets,  but I still think JTC's point stands.

Bringing in workers from abroad who do lower paid jobs lowers the wages of the existing population who do these jobs IMO.

I'd say that less affluent people should indeed not have TVs if it means they are living beyond their means.  In my younger days I managed to get in to thousands of pounds of debt due by trying to keep up with my peers, going out on the p1ss, getting the best clothes etc.. all good at the time, but it was stupid of me and left me with lots of debt.  I eventually got it paid off by a combination of doing extra hours and living a very basic lifestyle for a long time, as well as the famous British still upper lip.

People should be taught from a very young age to focus on saving, living within your means and building a skill set that will stand you in good stead IMO.

For me, it's not about saying that those with the least money shouldn't have things, but about having a system in place where anyone can have those things if they work hard and make sacrifices.  People shouldn't feel embarrassed to do certain jobs either.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with bin collecting, working behind a till, street sweeping or even dragging your old lawn mower round the streets and chapping doors to ask if you can mow folks lawns.

Foreign workers aren’t cheaper in my experience. They have to be paid the minimum wage and it tends to be minimum wages jobs that foreign workers come to Scotland to do.

I have personally recruited large groups of people to come to Scotland from Poland and it was only because I couldn’t find enough people in Scotland. It was an absolute nightmare though. As well as pay, you need to subsidise travel and accommodation and that caused a whole lot of headaches. I will never do it again because:

1. It is far more hassle that it is worth
2. Foreign workers no longer want to come here

People only resort to using overseas workers when there is no other option. And, in a job market which has the highest employment and lowest unemployment ever, I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone has a concern about overseas workers.

Wee Nippy Thatcher wants control over immigration as she sees it as a boost for our economy.