Quote from: Hardliner on October 20, 2020, 02:48:29 pm

Quote from: Buc on October 20, 2020, 11:03:41 am

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 10:55:50 am

It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:

1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆

Tough times for the Unionist cause.

Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.

It's not a case of them wanting to keep us, it's a case of us all being part of one nation, which is the UK, and a minority of one part of the Nation trying to split off.

This minority are desperately trying to use opinion polls with loaded questions, large numbers of undecideds, and small samples during a time when support for the split is at it's highest for a number of factors which we have every reason to believe won't last forever, only 6 years after we'd already settled the issue with the Nationalists getting everything on their terms.

That's not how democracy works, you can't just jump in opportunistically and demand to leave whenever the spoofing polls show its suits for a wee while, especially when the Edinburgh agreement stated the result would be respected and the Nationalists claimed it'd once in a generation or once in a lifetime opportunity.

As well as this, the polls were consistently favourable to the Nats pre-referendum with the final result being way different, so we shouldn't really go by them should we?  Especially one which seems to be an outlier compared to the rest, which only have a slight gap.

The UK isn’t one nation, and never has been. That is a matter of UK law. The UK government definition of the United Kingdom explicitly states this.

How could it possibly simultaneously be one nation and a union?

When there is a democratic mandate for a referendum in a constituent nation, there must be a referendum. That’s international law.

There will be a 2nd independence referendum. Unionists should be preparing their defence of their union. Every moment that they try to oppose Scottish democracy is a moment which damages their prospects.

Where is this democratic mandate for a referendum?

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 04:02:27 pm

Quote from: Hardliner on October 20, 2020, 02:48:29 pm

Quote from: Buc on October 20, 2020, 11:03:41 am

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 10:55:50 am

It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:

1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆

Tough times for the Unionist cause.

Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.

It's not a case of them wanting to keep us, it's a case of us all being part of one nation, which is the UK, and a minority of one part of the Nation trying to split off.

This minority are desperately trying to use opinion polls with loaded questions, large numbers of undecideds, and small samples during a time when support for the split is at it's highest for a number of factors which we have every reason to believe won't last forever, only 6 years after we'd already settled the issue with the Nationalists getting everything on their terms.

That's not how democracy works, you can't just jump in opportunistically and demand to leave whenever the spoofing polls show its suits for a wee while, especially when the Edinburgh agreement stated the result would be respected and the Nationalists claimed it'd once in a generation or once in a lifetime opportunity.

As well as this, the polls were consistently favourable to the Nats pre-referendum with the final result being way different, so we shouldn't really go by them should we?  Especially one which seems to be an outlier compared to the rest, which only have a slight gap.

The UK isn’t one nation, and never has been. That is a matter of UK law. The UK government definition of the United Kingdom explicitly states this.

How could it possibly simultaneously be one nation and a union?

When there is a democratic mandate for a referendum in a constituent nation, there must be a referendum. That’s international law.

There will be a 2nd independence referendum. Unionists should be preparing their defence of their union. Every moment that they try to oppose Scottish democracy is a moment which damages their prospects.

The UK absolutely is a Nation.  This Nation is a Union of Kingdoms or Countries depending on the context - hence the term 'Union'.

There is absolutely no mandate for a 2nd referendum, in fact there are mandates against, such as the Edinburgh agreement and 'once in a generation' lie.

Well put brother.

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on October 20, 2020, 04:12:58 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 03:57:56 pm

It’s not a union if you can’t leave via democratic mandate.

Democracy will dictate the outcome. Scotland is likely to become independent. And unionists know it.

They will be welcome to put forward a reunification party for election to the independent Scottish Parliament. They can have a return to the UK in their manifesto and if they ever gain power they can have their own referendum.

Maybe then finally they will understand the power of democracy.

We voted No Thanks.
A democratic mandate.

Well now the people are back. You should have kept your promises.

Boris said No.

List of mandates for a 2nd referendum

SNP election win 2015
SNP election win 2016
SNP election win 2017
SNP election win 2019
SNP election win 2021 to come
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster
The Claim of Right
International law
The UN Charter
Scottish public opinion

I could go on.

There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory.

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 05:44:32 pm

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on October 20, 2020, 04:12:58 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 03:57:56 pm

It’s not a union if you can’t leave via democratic mandate.

Democracy will dictate the outcome. Scotland is likely to become independent. And unionists know it.

They will be welcome to put forward a reunification party for election to the independent Scottish Parliament. They can have a return to the UK in their manifesto and if they ever gain power they can have their own referendum.

Maybe then finally they will understand the power of democracy.

We voted No Thanks.
A democratic mandate.

Well now the people are back. You should have kept your promises.

Boris said No.

Won’t matter.

List of mandates for a 2nd referendum

SNP election win 2015
SNP election win 2016
SNP election win 2017
SNP election win 2019
SNP election win 2021 to come
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster
The Claim of Right
International law
The UN Charter
Scottish public opinion

I could go on.

There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory.

You’re going to have to flesh out those ‘election wins’.
Westminster representation is for a Uk vote.
Public opinion 😂

Honestly guys, if I was a Yoon I would be pretty concerned.

Undecideds tend to be the ones who won’t vote. These are very bad numbers for the Yoons.

The very idea that they think they can cling to their preferred constitution settlement against the wishes of the majority is both highly amusing and a damning indictment on the character of unionism.