Quote from: PeterGrant on September 06, 2020, 04:44:16 pm

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on September 06, 2020, 04:33:22 pm

Quote from: Hardliner on September 06, 2020, 04:11:28 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 06, 2020, 10:09:48 am

The rise in support of independence in in spite of the SNP rather than because of it. It is far wider than party political now, with many Labour, Green And fringe socialist group supporters in favour. It is the fault line in Scottish politics.

Another factor is demographic shift. Older voters are of course dying and they are the least likely to change their view, having been told all their life by the full apparatus of the British state that Scotland Can’t. I don’t say that to be provocative, it’s a genuine consideration.

At the same time you have younger voters coming through for whom the concept of independence is the norm and something that old folks were against. That helps.

But the biggest shift is in the Scottish middle classes who look with horror and embarrassment on UK governance. I know a lot of people who were bitterly opposed in 2014 who are now vociferously in favour. They feel betrayed and the promises made to them were disregarded.

It’s a soup of unionists own making. They could have been much nicer and more conciliatory after their victory in 2014, and promises could have been kept. Scotland could have had a special arrangement with the EU after Brexit but all suggestions from Scotland were ignored and sneered at.

Now, regardless of what the SNP do, support will continue to rise. And even a campaign forensically targettongbthe weaknesses on the Yes case, of which there are many, will not be enough.

I'm not so sure.  I reckon support could fall away after what would be a COVID bounce.  Polling from the time of the 2014 referendum showed that the very young were more pro-Union than those slightly older, although admittedly there wasn't much in it.  It was like separation had lost it's edge and wasn't cool anymore (in my opinion it's never been cool), although I do agree that the older ones were heavy staunch for the Union and that them dying won't do us any favours.

It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out and whether support for separation will indeed continue to climb like many claim.

I don't think it's easy to predict politics as there are so many variables these days.

If you look at Twitter, any of the Under One Braincell marches and the bridges for Indy idiots, you’ll notice that they’re mostly older people.
Don’t see where the older ones being staunch ‘unionists’ comes from.

Oh I dunno, maybe just from all polling data ever on the subject. But I guess your sojourns around the twitter sphere constitute more reliable data.

The All Under One Braincell Marches?
Bridges For Indy? ( no sniggering now)
[/quote

All under one Braincell marches goodness me .my wife's Spanish friend Mercedes was a Psychiatrist now retired who retired whilst advising government's has done a few marches has one Braincell you never been to one march to think this.

Quote from: Buc on September 06, 2020, 04:33:58 pm

I've never seen fall outs at Scotland games pre match during or after .

We are all there to support the team and have a good time .
I've never even heard anyone bringing up independence during the games how the hell would anyone fall out we someone for voting no if they don't know you .
As regards families of course there's political arguments they just didn't start with an independence vote .

Families have come to blows because my brother or aunty or uncle is a Torie that's politics way before 2014.

I know I lived through it I've seen a huge cowboy fight in the lord Byron in Northfield in the 70s police cars hospital treatment it was mental was just before a London government election .

Tell me one incident of a punch up during an independence march .

The attendances (actually attendances, not the numbers they claim) for these marches are pitiful.

Quote from: Buc on September 06, 2020, 06:35:12 pm

Quote from: Hardliner on September 06, 2020, 06:32:16 pm

Quote from: Buc on September 06, 2020, 04:33:58 pm

I've never seen fall outs at Scotland games pre match during or after .

We are all there to support the team and have a good time .
I've never even heard anyone bringing up independence during the games how the hell would anyone fall out we someone for voting no if they don't know you .
As regards families of course there's political arguments they just didn't start with an independence vote .

Families have come to blows because my brother or aunty or uncle is a Torie that's politics way before 2014.

I know I lived through it I've seen a huge cowboy fight in the lord Byron in Northfield in the 70s police cars hospital treatment it was mental was just before a London government election .

Tell me one incident of a punch up during an independence march .

The attendances (actually attendances, not the numbers they claim) for these marches are pitiful.

Where do you get your figures from ?

My son did do a count in the Edinburgh one last year working out an average taking in the time of the march from start to finish .

'A Force For Good' - They go through the marches on video and count sections, multiplying depending on the time it takes it pass.

Pretty sure they are generous too with the counting too e.g. if a Palestine, Catalan, Ireland flag or other type of banner obscures the sight of a section, they'll count the maximum amount that could be obscured.

Quote from: AJ on September 06, 2020, 12:13:36 pm

Quote from: Spit On McGhee on September 06, 2020, 12:00:53 pm

Pretty arrogant to assume that all people that believe in independence are daft, nice one Mo.

It's almost as daft as saying everybody that voted for Brexit is a racist.

Did anyone on here say that?

Quote from: AJ on September 07, 2020, 07:47:09 am

Quote from: Spit On McGhee on September 06, 2020, 04:30:55 pm

Quote from: AJ on September 06, 2020, 12:13:36 pm

Quote from: Spit On McGhee on September 06, 2020, 12:00:53 pm

Pretty arrogant to assume that all people that believe in independence are daft, nice one Mo.

It's almost as daft as saying everybody that voted for Brexit is a racist.

Did anyone on here say that?

It was said across the road and by many others.

Was it not that you didn’t have to be a racist to vote for Brexit but that all racists voted for Brexit? I think it’s a crass point myself, although probably correct.

Looks like Boris is to renege on the special arrangement for NI and impose No Deal Brexit on whole UK, in breach of international treaties.

Expect independence support to rise above 60% and a border poll in Ireland.

It seems Britain definitely doesn’t want NI anymore and is happy now for Scotland to choose independence. Unionists need to face up to the fact that the Union has betrayed them and sold them out. They can now be a positive force for Scotland’s future.

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on September 07, 2020, 08:46:37 am

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 07, 2020, 08:37:38 am

Looks like Boris is to renege on the special arrangement for NI and impose No Deal Brexit on whole UK, in breach of international treaties.

Expect independence support to rise above 60% and a border poll in Ireland.

It seems Britain definitely doesn’t want NI anymore and is happy now for Scotland to choose independence. Unionists need to face up to the fact that the Union has betrayed them and sold them out. They can now be a positive force for Scotland’s future.

We voted to leave the EU.
There was no deal or no deal option, just remain or leave.
We voted to leave so leave we should.

Nobody voted to leave without a trade deal. NI was getting a special deal and now they’re not.

The Union doesn’t want you.

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on September 07, 2020, 08:46:37 am

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 07, 2020, 08:37:38 am

Looks like Boris is to renege on the special arrangement for NI and impose No Deal Brexit on whole UK, in breach of international treaties.

Expect independence support to rise above 60% and a border poll in Ireland.

It seems Britain definitely doesn’t want NI anymore and is happy now for Scotland to choose independence. Unionists need to face up to the fact that the Union has betrayed them and sold them out. They can now be a positive force for Scotland’s future.

We voted to leave the EU.
There was no deal or no deal option, just remain or leave.
We voted to leave so leave we should.

Nobody voted to leave without a trade deal. NI was getting a special deal and now they’re not.

The Union doesn’t want you.