Quote from: PeterGrant on September 06, 2020, 04:03:58 pm

Quote from: LionMo on September 06, 2020, 04:01:22 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 06, 2020, 03:51:58 pm

Quote from: LionMo on September 06, 2020, 03:11:02 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 06, 2020, 02:45:07 pm

Quote from: LionMo on September 06, 2020, 02:34:25 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 06, 2020, 02:22:33 pm

Quote from: LionMo on September 06, 2020, 01:57:10 pm

Quote from: Buc on September 06, 2020, 01:51:48 pm

Quote from: LionMo on September 06, 2020, 12:13:03 pm

Quote from: Spit On McGhee on September 06, 2020, 12:00:53 pm

Pretty arrogant to assume that all people that believe in independence are daft, nice one Mo.

I don't think that they are all daft mate, I just don't understand why they would take such a risk. I cannot get my head round it and I have been trying to for years. I've spoken to someone who is a supporter and it just makes it worse in my head. 🤷‍♂️,

It's a risk to stay in the union 2 trillion in dept out of Europe .
That tells me it's the other way around .

There's nothing wrong being independent anyway it's not splitting the country up its splitting the union up .

And saying we won't be able to manage isn't an issue because we have much resources other countries that do not have they'd give an arm and a leg for .

It's all about growing your own economy.
I'm excited about Scotland's future .

And how much debt would Scotland start with ? How do we pay that back ?
I'm petrified if Scotland went independent.
And Buc the country is split in 2, sadly

It is a very good thing that country is split on this issue. Division is a good thing, a sign of a health democracy.

I do NOT recall Yoons complaining about the divisive nature of politics in the years prior to 2007 when Scotland and the UK were split tribally down Labour/Tory lines.

But now the old rules don’t suit so well it’s time for new rules. Always the stacked deck with these guys.

Its awful the country is split in two. There is nothing good about it at all. Before tge referendum the country was a lot happier place to live in imo. Now its split between those that want independence and those that don't. It makes me so sad what has happened to our beautiful country and its people.

I think the division is great. It’s really interesting and I’m much happier with this division than when it was boring Labour v Tory division.

Fair enough, another baffling comment that I do not get. Its absolutely horrible that no good can come out of. Friends, families, workmates all falling out. All my mates absolutely hate it and want it to stop which sadly it wont. I want to live in a pre referendum happy country where you could go to Scotland games without 45 yes on peoples tops. Sit in the Derry and not get abused. Wear a saltire on your t shirt with pride, not like now. Not to be embarrased by bully boy at WM and the rest of them.

Well I like it.

What does someone else wearing 45 yes on a Scotland top have to do with you? Why does it affect you?

Like I said fair enough, you like it, I don't 🤷‍♂️ 🙂Nothing to do with me mate but football and politics should be kept separate imo. It affects me because it makes me annoyed to see it. Sad maybe but to me its wrong just like people putting yes on a saltire.

This doesn’t make sense though Mo. What’s it to you what other people wear or what other people’s political views are?

Absolutely nothing to me mate but at a Scotland game I do not want to see 45 yes on a Scotland top. Makes me annoyed and sad. Keep politics and your poltical view out of sport, especially an international football game.

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 06, 2020, 10:09:48 am

The rise in support of independence in in spite of the SNP rather than because of it. It is far wider than party political now, with many Labour, Green And fringe socialist group supporters in favour. It is the fault line in Scottish politics.

Another factor is demographic shift. Older voters are of course dying and they are the least likely to change their view, having been told all their life by the full apparatus of the British state that Scotland Can’t. I don’t say that to be provocative, it’s a genuine consideration.

At the same time you have younger voters coming through for whom the concept of independence is the norm and something that old folks were against. That helps.

But the biggest shift is in the Scottish middle classes who look with horror and embarrassment on UK governance. I know a lot of people who were bitterly opposed in 2014 who are now vociferously in favour. They feel betrayed and the promises made to them were disregarded.

It’s a soup of unionists own making. They could have been much nicer and more conciliatory after their victory in 2014, and promises could have been kept. Scotland could have had a special arrangement with the EU after Brexit but all suggestions from Scotland were ignored and sneered at.

Now, regardless of what the SNP do, support will continue to rise. And even a campaign forensically targettongbthe weaknesses on the Yes case, of which there are many, will not be enough.

I'm not so sure.  I reckon support could fall away after what would be a COVID bounce.  Polling from the time of the 2014 referendum showed that the very young were more pro-Union than those slightly older, although admittedly there wasn't much in it.  It was like separation had lost it's edge and wasn't cool anymore (in my opinion it's never been cool), although I do agree that the older ones were heavy staunch for the Union and that them dying won't do us any favours.

It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out and whether support for separation will indeed continue to climb like many claim.

I don't think it's easy to predict politics as there are so many variables these days.

I've never seen fall outs at Scotland games pre match during or after .

We are all there to support the team and have a good time .
I've never even heard anyone bringing up independence during the games how the hell would anyone fall out we someone for voting no if they don't know you .
As regards families of course there's political arguments they just didn't start with an independence vote .

Families have come to blows because my brother or aunty or uncle is a Torie that's politics way before 2014.

I know I lived through it I've seen a huge cowboy fight in the lord Byron in Northfield in the 70s police cars hospital treatment it was mental was just before a London government election .

Tell me one incident of a punch up during an independence march .

I know plenty no voting Dundee fans and it's never been mentioned at the football once. How did folk in the Derry know you voted no, LionMo?

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 06, 2020, 02:22:33 pm

Quote from: LionMo on September 06, 2020, 01:57:10 pm

Quote from: Buc on September 06, 2020, 01:51:48 pm

Quote from: LionMo on September 06, 2020, 12:13:03 pm

Quote from: Spit On McGhee on September 06, 2020, 12:00:53 pm

Pretty arrogant to assume that all people that believe in independence are daft, nice one Mo.

I don't think that they are all daft mate, I just don't understand why they would take such a risk. I cannot get my head round it and I have been trying to for years. I've spoken to someone who is a supporter and it just makes it worse in my head. 🤷‍♂️,

It's a risk to stay in the union 2 trillion in dept out of Europe .
That tells me it's the other way around .

There's nothing wrong being independent anyway it's not splitting the country up its splitting the union up .

And saying we won't be able to manage isn't an issue because we have much resources other countries that do not have they'd give an arm and a leg for .

It's all about growing your own economy.
I'm excited about Scotland's future .

And how much debt would Scotland start with ? How do we pay that back ?
I'm petrified if Scotland went independent.
And Buc the country is split in 2, sadly

It is a very good thing that country is split on this issue. Division is a good thing, a sign of a health democracy.

I do NOT recall Yoons complaining about the divisive nature of politics in the years prior to 2007 when Scotland and the UK were split tribally down Labour/Tory lines.

But now the old rules don’t suit so well it’s time for new rules. Always the stacked deck with these guys.

Its awful the country is split in two. There is nothing good about it at all. Before tge referendum the country was a lot happier place to live in imo. Now its split between those that want independence and those that don't. It makes me so sad what has happened to our beautiful country and its people.

Quote from: Hardliner on September 06, 2020, 04:11:28 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 06, 2020, 10:09:48 am

The rise in support of independence in in spite of the SNP rather than because of it. It is far wider than party political now, with many Labour, Green And fringe socialist group supporters in favour. It is the fault line in Scottish politics.

Another factor is demographic shift. Older voters are of course dying and they are the least likely to change their view, having been told all their life by the full apparatus of the British state that Scotland Can’t. I don’t say that to be provocative, it’s a genuine consideration.

At the same time you have younger voters coming through for whom the concept of independence is the norm and something that old folks were against. That helps.

But the biggest shift is in the Scottish middle classes who look with horror and embarrassment on UK governance. I know a lot of people who were bitterly opposed in 2014 who are now vociferously in favour. They feel betrayed and the promises made to them were disregarded.

It’s a soup of unionists own making. They could have been much nicer and more conciliatory after their victory in 2014, and promises could have been kept. Scotland could have had a special arrangement with the EU after Brexit but all suggestions from Scotland were ignored and sneered at.

Now, regardless of what the SNP do, support will continue to rise. And even a campaign forensically targettongbthe weaknesses on the Yes case, of which there are many, will not be enough.

I'm not so sure.  I reckon support could fall away after what would be a COVID bounce.  Polling from the time of the 2014 referendum showed that the very young were more pro-Union than those slightly older, although admittedly there wasn't much in it.  It was like separation had lost it's edge and wasn't cool anymore (in my opinion it's never been cool), although I do agree that the older ones were heavy staunch for the Union and that them dying won't do us any favours.

It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out and whether support for separation will indeed continue to climb like many claim.

I don't think it's easy to predict politics as there are so many variables these days.

If you look at Twitter, any of the Under One Braincell marches and the bridges for Indy idiots, you’ll notice that they’re mostly older people.
Don’t see where the older ones being staunch ‘unionists’ comes from.

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on September 06, 2020, 04:33:22 pm

Quote from: Hardliner on September 06, 2020, 04:11:28 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 06, 2020, 10:09:48 am

The rise in support of independence in in spite of the SNP rather than because of it. It is far wider than party political now, with many Labour, Green And fringe socialist group supporters in favour. It is the fault line in Scottish politics.

Another factor is demographic shift. Older voters are of course dying and they are the least likely to change their view, having been told all their life by the full apparatus of the British state that Scotland Can’t. I don’t say that to be provocative, it’s a genuine consideration.

At the same time you have younger voters coming through for whom the concept of independence is the norm and something that old folks were against. That helps.

But the biggest shift is in the Scottish middle classes who look with horror and embarrassment on UK governance. I know a lot of people who were bitterly opposed in 2014 who are now vociferously in favour. They feel betrayed and the promises made to them were disregarded.

It’s a soup of unionists own making. They could have been much nicer and more conciliatory after their victory in 2014, and promises could have been kept. Scotland could have had a special arrangement with the EU after Brexit but all suggestions from Scotland were ignored and sneered at.

Now, regardless of what the SNP do, support will continue to rise. And even a campaign forensically targettongbthe weaknesses on the Yes case, of which there are many, will not be enough.

I'm not so sure.  I reckon support could fall away after what would be a COVID bounce.  Polling from the time of the 2014 referendum showed that the very young were more pro-Union than those slightly older, although admittedly there wasn't much in it.  It was like separation had lost it's edge and wasn't cool anymore (in my opinion it's never been cool), although I do agree that the older ones were heavy staunch for the Union and that them dying won't do us any favours.

It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out and whether support for separation will indeed continue to climb like many claim.

I don't think it's easy to predict politics as there are so many variables these days.

If you look at Twitter, any of the Under One Braincell marches and the bridges for Indy idiots, you’ll notice that they’re mostly older people.
Don’t see where the older ones being staunch ‘unionists’ comes from.

Oh I dunno, maybe just from all polling data ever on the subject. But I guess your sojourns around the twitter sphere constitute more reliable data.