I love democracy Mo. You guys won in 2014, but then you didn’t keep your promises. It’s your own fault that there will be another referendum. I love referenda. You don’t get more democratic than that.

In an independent Scotland you can argue for returning to the Union and if you get a majority in Parliament you can have a referendum.

What could be more reasonable than that?

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 21, 2020, 05:40:07 pm

I love democracy Mo. You guys won in 2014, but then you didn’t keep your promises. It’s your own fault that there will be another referendum. I love referenda. You don’t get more democratic than that.

In an independent Scotland you can argue for returning to the Union and if you get a majority in Parliament you can have a referendum.

What could be more reasonable than that?

What could be more reasonable Peter is respecting the result in 2014

If unionists had done that, they wouldn’t be facing the end of their Union now.

The Unionists broke no promises that I know of.

I'm happy to concede this point if someone points out a broken promise, but that's never happened.

Apart from the vow, many promises were made during the Unionists’ referendum campaign.

Better Together stated many, many times that a No vote was a guarantee of staying in the EU. Many unionist politicians made this commitment too. It was also promised that if Scotland did not leave the UK it could lead the UK and the opposite has occurred.

Unionists should have supported the Scottish Government in demanding a special EU deal for Scotland. That would have strengthened the UK considerably. Instead they largely sneered and told the rest of us it was tough ****.

Major tactical error that cannot be undone.

Quote from: Hardliner on September 21, 2020, 08:02:11 pm

The Unionists broke no promises that I know of.

I'm happy to concede this point if someone points out a broken promise, but that's never happened.

Apart from the vow, many promises were made during the Unionists’ referendum campaign.

Better Together stated many, many times that a No vote was a guarantee of staying in the EU. Many unionist politicians made this commitment too. It was also promised that if Scotland did not leave the UK it could lead the UK and the opposite has occurred.

Unionists should have supported the Scottish Government in demanding a special EU deal for Scotland. That would have strengthened the UK considerably. Instead they largely sneered and told the rest of us it was tough ****.

Major tactical error that cannot be undone.

The Vow was kept.

We all knew an EU referendum was looming and no Unionist party ever said that we'd be guaranteed to stay in the EU despite that.  The claim was something along the lines of 'The only way to stay in the EU is to vote No' and this was absolutely true, as separation would have had us leave the EU.

The No vote absolutely allowed us to stay in the EU, but we voted to leave 2 years afterwards, in a referendum everybody knew about in 2014.

Again, if an actual broken promise is pointed out to me then I'll happily concede, but all I ever hear is manufactured grieve-spin.

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 21, 2020, 09:28:11 pm

Quote from: Hardliner on September 21, 2020, 08:02:11 pm

The Unionists broke no promises that I know of.

I'm happy to concede this point if someone points out a broken promise, but that's never happened.

Apart from the vow, many promises were made during the Unionists’ referendum campaign.

Better Together stated many, many times that a No vote was a guarantee of staying in the EU. Many unionist politicians made this commitment too. It was also promised that if Scotland did not leave the UK it could lead the UK and the opposite has occurred.

Unionists should have supported the Scottish Government in demanding a special EU deal for Scotland. That would have strengthened the UK considerably. Instead they largely sneered and told the rest of us it was tough ****.

Major tactical error that cannot be undone.

The Vow was kept.

We all knew an EU referendum was looming and no Unionist party ever said that we'd be guaranteed to stay in the EU despite that.  The claim was something along the lines of 'The only way to stay in the EU is to vote No' and this was absolutely true, as separation would have had us leave the EU.

The No vote absolutely allowed us to stay in the EU, but we voted to leave 2 years afterwards, in a referendum everybody knew about in 2014.

Again, if an actual broken promise is pointed out to me then I'll happily concede, but all I ever hear is manufactured grieve-spin.

The better together and unionist promise was “the only way to guarantee staying in the EU is to vote no”.

Unionists in Scotland should have faced up to these problems and ensured a special deal for Scotland. It is unionist tactical errors which will bring about independence.

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 22, 2020, 08:15:49 am

Quote from: Hardliner on September 21, 2020, 10:24:24 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 21, 2020, 09:28:11 pm

Quote from: Hardliner on September 21, 2020, 08:02:11 pm

The Unionists broke no promises that I know of.

I'm happy to concede this point if someone points out a broken promise, but that's never happened.

Apart from the vow, many promises were made during the Unionists’ referendum campaign.

Better Together stated many, many times that a No vote was a guarantee of staying in the EU. Many unionist politicians made this commitment too. It was also promised that if Scotland did not leave the UK it could lead the UK and the opposite has occurred.

Unionists should have supported the Scottish Government in demanding a special EU deal for Scotland. That would have strengthened the UK considerably. Instead they largely sneered and told the rest of us it was tough ****.

Major tactical error that cannot be undone.

The Vow was kept.

We all knew an EU referendum was looming and no Unionist party ever said that we'd be guaranteed to stay in the EU despite that.  The claim was something along the lines of 'The only way to stay in the EU is to vote No' and this was absolutely true, as separation would have had us leave the EU.

The No vote absolutely allowed us to stay in the EU, but we voted to leave 2 years afterwards, in a referendum everybody knew about in 2014.

Again, if an actual broken promise is pointed out to me then I'll happily concede, but all I ever hear is manufactured grieve-spin.

The better together and unionist promise was “the only way to guarantee staying in the EU is to vote no”.

Unionists in Scotland should have faced up to these problems and ensured a special deal for Scotland. It is unionist tactical errors which will bring about independence.

That particular irony will make it all the more delicious.

Indeed. It was all in their hands.

Quote from: Hardliner on September 21, 2020, 10:24:24 pm

Quote from: PeterGrant on September 21, 2020, 09:28:11 pm

Quote from: Hardliner on September 21, 2020, 08:02:11 pm

The Unionists broke no promises that I know of.

I'm happy to concede this point if someone points out a broken promise, but that's never happened.

Apart from the vow, many promises were made during the Unionists’ referendum campaign.

Better Together stated many, many times that a No vote was a guarantee of staying in the EU. Many unionist politicians made this commitment too. It was also promised that if Scotland did not leave the UK it could lead the UK and the opposite has occurred.

Unionists should have supported the Scottish Government in demanding a special EU deal for Scotland. That would have strengthened the UK considerably. Instead they largely sneered and told the rest of us it was tough ****.

Major tactical error that cannot be undone.

The Vow was kept.

We all knew an EU referendum was looming and no Unionist party ever said that we'd be guaranteed to stay in the EU despite that.  The claim was something along the lines of 'The only way to stay in the EU is to vote No' and this was absolutely true, as separation would have had us leave the EU.

The No vote absolutely allowed us to stay in the EU, but we voted to leave 2 years afterwards, in a referendum everybody knew about in 2014.

Again, if an actual broken promise is pointed out to me then I'll happily concede, but all I ever hear is manufactured grieve-spin.

The better together and unionist promise was “the only way to guarantee staying in the EU is to vote no”.

Unionists in Scotland should have faced up to these problems and ensured a special deal for Scotland. It is unionist tactical errors which will bring about independence.

That promise was absolutely kept.  The Nats would have taken us out of the EU whereas voting No kept us in.

Everybody knew a referendum would be taking place on the issue and we voted to leave.  This does not mean that voting No didn't keep us in the EU in 2014.