Aye !ol

Shame for the supporters that the locals go in another direction they also rely on visiting support without whom I think Hamilton may struggle to survive with the wages they'd have to pay.

They don't travel either around 50 fans compared to say Dundee 1500 or more that helps Aberdeen more than Hamilton do.

But they are there on merit I suppose.

Defo there on merit Buc.

Same with Livvi, league standings aren’t on crowds.

Yup be nice if they both were better supported .
Their fans must feel it when they are outnumbered in most home games .

Both are decent teams .

Excellent result for the teddy bears!

Who needs Morelos?

Depressing to see the players take the knee though.

Can’t say it bothers me, each to their own

I support BLM and supported players taking a knee, but it’s a new season now and time for sport to move on I reckon.

Keeping it going just cheapens it now.

Quote from: Build My Gallows on August 29, 2020, 09:29:15 pm

Excellent result for the teddy bears!

Who needs Morelos?

Depressing to see the players take the knee though.

I'm all for it .

For me these people have been treated badly for decades if not hundreds of years .

Slavery abuse their children abused by the slave owners . No coloureds allowed in this shop or restaurant.

Not allowed on the beach . Blamed for murders they didnt commit and put to death .

But when the were murdered the authorities didn't give a dam .

The soul bus from the 60s travelled from  the north side of America with the likes of a young Dianna Ross on it performing for the whites but by the time they got to the deep south they could eat inside restaurant's they had to stay on the bus even though they were doing hugely successful performance's at night for the whites .
Not surprising some have issues .

Oh does anyone remember the first black man to kiss a white woman at the back of a car .

That was too much for many in the white population of America . unbelievable. Name that film and the actor !

I just don't see how Black (POC seems to be a new trendy phrase I see) people are treated badly though.  I've never seen any stats that convince me otherwise, all I see are what I see as conspiracy theories about the police, systematic racism etc.

I also don't get how the George Floyd situation sparked this off.  It was a case of police brutality but there's nothing to show that he was targetted for his race.  It seems he was targetted because he committed a crime, then one white police officer knelt on his neck whilst 3 non-whites looked on.  It's since been shown that him not being able to breathe was being complained about before the policeman knelt on his neck and was most likely to him being off face on drugs.  Was it even the neck-kneel that killed him?

Slavery, blacks being treated as 2nd class citizens and giving them the blame for things they didn't do were all awful and go against everything I stand for, but these things don't happen anymore.

Using the probable non-racist death of a drug-fuelled criminal as an excuse to riot, loot, burn and destroy livelyhoods just makes no sense to me, and reflects terribly on POC to large swathes of people.  If the far-right needed an effective recruiting campaign then this is exactly it.

If Black Lives Matter really cared about black lives, but they would protest against the black-on-black violence within their own communities.  Maybe they should ask for reparations from existing 'POC' in Africa for capturing and selling their own people to Western whites for a healthy profit in the past too.

Quote from: Buc on August 30, 2020, 04:21:37 pm

Quote from: Build My Gallows on August 29, 2020, 09:29:15 pm

Excellent result for the teddy bears!

Who needs Morelos?

Depressing to see the players take the knee though.

I'm all for it .

For me these people have been treated badly for decades if not hundreds of years .

Slavery abuse their children abused by the slave owners . No coloureds allowed in this shop or restaurant.

Not allowed on the beach . Blamed for murders they didnt commit and put to death .

But when the were murdered the authorities didn't give a dam .

The soul bus from the 60s travelled from  the north side of America with the likes of a young Dianna Ross on it performing for the whites but by the time they got to the deep south they could eat inside restaurant's they had to stay on the bus even though they were doing hugely successful performance's at night for the whites .
Not surprising some have issues .

Oh does anyone remember the first black man to kiss a white woman at the back of a car .

That was too much for many in the white population of America . unbelievable. Name that film and the actor !

I just don't see how Black (POC seems to be a new trendy phrase I see) people are treated badly though.  I've never seen any stats that convince me otherwise, all I see are what I see as conspiracy theories about the police, systematic racism etc.

I also don't get how the George Floyd situation sparked this off.  It was a case of police brutality but there's nothing to show that he was targetted for his race.  It seems he was targetted because he committed a crime, then one white police officer knelt on his neck whilst 3 non-whites looked on.  It's since been shown that him not being able to breathe was being complained about before the policeman knelt on his neck and was most likely to him being off face on drugs.  Was it even the neck-kneel that killed him?

Slavery, blacks being treated as 2nd class citizens and giving them the blame for things they didn't do were all awful and go against everything I stand for, but these things don't happen anymore.

Using the probable non-racist death of a drug-fuelled criminal as an excuse to riot, loot, burn and destroy livelyhoods just makes no sense to me, and reflects terribly on POC to large swathes of people.  If the far-right needed an effective recruiting campaign then this is exactly it.

If Black Lives Matter really cared about black lives, but they would protest against the black-on-black violence within their own communities.  Maybe they should ask for reparations from existing 'POC' in Africa for capturing and selling their own people to Western whites for a healthy profit in the past too.

It’s a very complex issue IMO. In day to day life living in Scotland and working across the UK, and even globally, I don’t encounter racist attitudes. Part of that will be to do with the circles people move in, I guess, but it’s not something I personally come across in real life day to day, and that’s good.

I have family in America though and from what I understand there is a real undercurrent. It thrives in the poorest communities and blue collar cultures. From “rednecks” who just don’t have a brain to bitter cops who feel their experience of the American Dream isn’t what it should be and that they just don’t get enough respect. It’s always poor on poor and bitterness and resentment that fuels this stuff.

Whether Floyd George committed a crime or not and whether he was on drugs or not, police can’t murder suspects. They guy was on the ground, in cuffs, and pleading for his life while the guy kept the pressure on his neck. And while doing so, he taunted the guy, telling him to get up. They 3 cops who stood and watched are certainly complicit in the murder. As police officers themselves they should have prevented it.

In the context of racial issues in America, there is a strong sentiment that it would not have happened to white guy.  I think that’s understandable in that context.

In America you are more likely to be poor if you are black. You are more likely to be prosecuted if suspected of a crime and more likely to be convicted if you are black. You are more likely to be in prison and more likely to receive a longer sentence if you are black. It is a vicious circle rooted in poverty, resentment and mistrust.

The police in the US have an appalling record. Some cities are better than others and some states are better than others. Even as far back as 1968, Senator Robert Kennedy was assassinated in Los Angeles during his presidential campaign. Due to his involvement with civil rights, his security team that day would not work with the LAPD because they did not trust the LAPD. And there is the further context of Rodney King which still lives in the minds of black Americans.

Taking a knee was a good thing to do I reckon, but it’s time to move on from that. It feels shallow and tokenistic now.

Quote from: Build My Gallows on August 30, 2020, 06:33:32 pm

Quote from: Buc on August 30, 2020, 04:21:37 pm

Quote from: Build My Gallows on August 29, 2020, 09:29:15 pm

Excellent result for the teddy bears!

Who needs Morelos?

Depressing to see the players take the knee though.

I'm all for it .

For me these people have been treated badly for decades if not hundreds of years .

Slavery abuse their children abused by the slave owners . No coloureds allowed in this shop or restaurant.

Not allowed on the beach . Blamed for murders they didnt commit and put to death .

But when the were murdered the authorities didn't give a dam .

The soul bus from the 60s travelled from  the north side of America with the likes of a young Dianna Ross on it performing for the whites but by the time they got to the deep south they could eat inside restaurant's they had to stay on the bus even though they were doing hugely successful performance's at night for the whites .
Not surprising some have issues .

Oh does anyone remember the first black man to kiss a white woman at the back of a car .

That was too much for many in the white population of America . unbelievable. Name that film and the actor !

I just don't see how Black (POC seems to be a new trendy phrase I see) people are treated badly though.  I've never seen any stats that convince me otherwise, all I see are what I see as conspiracy theories about the police, systematic racism etc.

I also don't get how the George Floyd situation sparked this off.  It was a case of police brutality but there's nothing to show that he was targetted for his race.  It seems he was targetted because he committed a crime, then one white police officer knelt on his neck whilst 3 non-whites looked on.  It's since been shown that him not being able to breathe was being complained about before the policeman knelt on his neck and was most likely to him being off face on drugs.  Was it even the neck-kneel that killed him?

Slavery, blacks being treated as 2nd class citizens and giving them the blame for things they didn't do were all awful and go against everything I stand for, but these things don't happen anymore.

Using the probable non-racist death of a drug-fuelled criminal as an excuse to riot, loot, burn and destroy livelyhoods just makes no sense to me, and reflects terribly on POC to large swathes of people.  If the far-right needed an effective recruiting campaign then this is exactly it.

If Black Lives Matter really cared about black lives, but they would protest against the black-on-black violence within their own communities.  Maybe they should ask for reparations from existing 'POC' in Africa for capturing and selling their own people to Western whites for a healthy profit in the past too.

It’s a very complex issue IMO. In day to day life living in Scotland and working across the UK, and even globally, I don’t encounter racist attitudes. Part of that will be to do with the circles people move in, I guess, but it’s not something I personally come across in real life day to day, and that’s good.

I have family in America though and from what I understand there is a real undercurrent. It thrives in the poorest communities and blue collar cultures. From “rednecks” who just don’t have a brain to bitter cops who feel their experience of the American Dream isn’t what it should be and that they just don’t get enough respect. It’s always poor on poor and bitterness and resentment that fuels this stuff.

Whether Floyd George committed a crime or not and whether he was on drugs or not, police can’t murder suspects. They guy was on the ground, in cuffs, and pleading for his life while the guy kept the pressure on his neck. And while doing so, he taunted the guy, telling him to get up. They 3 cops who stood and watched are certainly complicit in the murder. As police officers themselves they should have prevented it.

In the context of racial issues in America, there is a strong sentiment that it would not have happened to white guy.  I think that’s understandable in that context.

In America you are more likely to be poor if you are black. You are more likely to be prosecuted if suspected of a crime and more likely to be convicted if you are black. You are more likely to be in prison and more likely to receive a longer sentence if you are black. It is a vicious circle rooted in poverty, resentment and mistrust.

The police in the US have an appalling record. Some cities are better than others and some states are better than others. Even as far back as 1968, Senator Robert Kennedy was assassinated in Los Angeles during his presidential campaign. Due to his involvement with civil rights, his security team that day would not work with the LAPD because they did not trust the LAPD. And there is the further context of Rodney King which still lives in the minds of black Americans.

Taking a knee was a good thing to do I reckon, but it’s time to move on from that. It feels shallow and tokenistic now.

Some very good points Peter.

I don't encounter racist attitudes either, and the circles I move in are people who generally aren't known for being the most progressive or politically correct!

I agree about a racial undercurrent in the states and absolutely agree about it being complex.  I don't know anyone over there, but there definitely seems to be something going on.

Whether Chauvin murdered Floyd or not (I don't think it has been decided?) I still don't see how it should lead to widespread burning, looting and destruction.  Maybe BLM should be apologising to business and home owners for the destruction that many from their community have caused and asking them to stop?  This would go a long way to repairing the race relations that have, in my opinion, recently been set back decades.  How come it only ever seems to be whitey that gets the blame for anything?  Is this racism from BLM?  Racist cuts both ways IMO.

I've never saw any statistics that show that Blacks in the states are more likely to be prosecuted or receive bigger sentences for the same crimes as whites because of their race, although I'm happy to be proven wrong.  There are inherent and genetic differences in characteristics between races, whether that be levels of aggression, culture, physical differences, temperament, IQ, a sense of collectivism etc which have a lot to do with why there are crime and wealth differences in races no matter the country, all IMO of course.  The levels of Black fatherlessness aren't a good starting point for Black children either.  If we're going to achieve true equality of outcome between all racial groups, then you couldn't have a capitalist meritocracy IMO.

Also, I don't think it's right to excuse Blacks for distrusting white police because of the perceived actions of some, whereas we don't excuse police for distrusting blacks because of the perceived actions of some.

Another question I'd ask is if it's moral for police to keep a close eye on people who look dodgy because of what they are wearing, or their age/gender, whether they have scars on their face, whether they are walking around in a gang or their general demeanor in terms of stop and search for example?  If so, would it also be OK to keep a close eye on those of a particular race for the same reason?  All these types of profiling share the same principle of just looking for people most likely to be carrying, so I wouldn't see any logical reason not to treat them all the same.  It wouldn't all be racial either, i.e. I'm sure big groups of young white lads would probably get stopped more than a black granny with a zimmer frame!