Quote from: LionMo on December 16, 2020, 12:42:55 pm

Sometimes we are too soft in this country.

We have one of the highest rates of incarceration on the planet. Only Rwanda and the United States jail more people.

Quote from: PeterGrant on December 16, 2020, 01:10:05 pm

You can’t have it both ways, buddy.

Start your own thread and stop hijacking others to deflect from the utter fückin mess this is in which you are a card carrying apologist for failure.

Quote from: The Wet Blanket 2020 on December 16, 2020, 12:23:53 pm

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on December 16, 2020, 12:17:02 pm

Quote from: The Wet Blanket 2020 on December 16, 2020, 12:09:48 pm

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on December 16, 2020, 11:40:45 am

Quote from: The Wet Blanket 2020 on December 16, 2020, 10:49:41 am

Absolutely grim reading. In particular Dundee being the drug death capital of Europe. I've read up a lot about this and it really isn't something that will change overnight. There needs to be much more education for the next generation for a start.

In Dundee last year 1 person every 5 days died a drug related death. If we are serious about stopping this then we need to legalise it or make safe zones for drug testing, consumption, and needle exchange. There really isn't much of an alternative as if we do nothing it will get worse, more loved ones will die and addicts slumped in streets, needles found in playparks will become more prominent

Etizolam is the absolute main reason why Dundee and Scotland as a whole has such high drug deaths. An absolute Russian roulette everytime they are taken especially when mixed with other illicit drugs and at 30p a pill it isn't going anywhere. If we can regulate it, test it alongside heroin and make sure it is safe then these figures plummet imo. It's as simple as that.

Why do we need different laws that don’t have the horrific results we have than the rest of the Uk?
The Scottish government were warned when they cut funding what would happen....and fückin ignored it.
Until the Scottish government are brought to account we will continue to suffer these horrific stats.
We have people who vote for a party that has one fückin policy and when everything starts failing...look to blame someone else...usually the ‘Toareez’ which is only a euphemism for ‘the bastārd English’
We are reaping what the SNP have sown.

There are different factors of why drug deaths are worse up here. Same with why Dundee is worse than other places. I understand the points about the SNP but you really are trying to argue with the wrong guy here about it. I'll vote for them as a vehicle for Indy and probably no more. They lost my vote last election because of the drug death situation in my City as I felt that was more important and relevant than Indy at that point in time. My issues now is how we stop the spiralling drug deaths and how we start saving lives

It needs proper funding and support not different laws.
It’s about budget choices.
The SNP love virtue signalling policies.
A GP doesn’t need a £500 bonus for not seeing patients.
A new mother doesn’t need a baby box.
All the above plus the ferries, education, bifab and closed hospitals are ALWAYS more relevant than independence.
People who vote for the SNP ONLY because of independence are part of and complicit in the problems that beset Scotland.

That was the first opportunity I have had to vote for the SNP or not in an election since I had read up about the drug death situation in Dundee in particular. If things don't improve then i'll consider the same approach. I'm confident now that pressure will be put on the powers to address the situation head on

You think this has only just happened?
You think pressure hasn’t been exerted in the previous years when we were still the worst in Europe?
They couldn’t give a fück. They only care about independence.
You need to open yer eyes.
A vote for the SNP makes you complicit.

Quote from: Hardliner on December 16, 2020, 01:15:17 pm

Very good discussion lads! Some thought provoking posts.

Your potential new area of employment sounds interesting, Fremsley.  I'd be interested in hearing more although don't want you doxxing yourself.  Only Brenty gets away with doxxing!

Regarding Mo's comments about putting them down if all else fails, I don't believe he's coming from a position of hate but of logic and compassion for the victims of junkies.

The person would have already been given a serious second chance at making something of their life, one which was paid for by taxpayers in spite of crimes they may have committed to fuel their habit.  It'd be hard to continue to try and help someone if they keeping causing harm to people again and again, especially if they didn't show remorse or a willingness to change IMO.  Why should the junky get chance after chance when the victim who stumbles on a needle, or gets robbed or killed may not get that luxury, through the fault of the junky?

Personally, I wouldn't put them down, maybe a life in jail or somewhere more secure without chance of them feeding their habit.

I have one particular source which I won't try to force upon you but in which I believe answers can be found.  Addictions can't be beaten by replacement or by doing it legally or 'safely'.. they can only be beaten by the person not doing the thing and keeping away from it and those who may have it.  All IMO of course!!

I also don't think we should treat these people as financial statistics by saying rehab is good economically.  I'd be willing to pay good money to help people have another chance, but it couldn't go on forever.

It's in the balance just now Hardliner but i'll happily share information when I can

I do 100% agree with you about addicts wanting to stop but I do believe that there has to be more done to give them that opportunity. Perhaps less stigma around addiction would help as I can only imagine they are constantly fighting a losing battle. Pretty sure Dundee is one of the few Cities that doesn't have a rehab centre which in itself is rather alarming considering the magnitude of it here, and I hope now this will be addressed.

I think if we can start taking them by individual cases and understanding that some do want help and not everyone is mugging old ladies. Generalising them all as scum is part of the problem imo. The amount of needles crime and violence I've seen due to alcohol far more outweighs what I have seen due to drug addiction.

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on December 16, 2020, 02:01:11 pm

Quote from: The Wet Blanket 2020 on December 16, 2020, 01:55:38 pm

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on December 16, 2020, 01:04:59 pm

Quote from: The Wet Blanket 2020 on December 16, 2020, 12:23:53 pm

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on December 16, 2020, 12:17:02 pm

Quote from: The Wet Blanket 2020 on December 16, 2020, 12:09:48 pm

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on December 16, 2020, 11:40:45 am

Quote from: The Wet Blanket 2020 on December 16, 2020, 10:49:41 am

Absolutely grim reading. In particular Dundee being the drug death capital of Europe. I've read up a lot about this and it really isn't something that will change overnight. There needs to be much more education for the next generation for a start.

In Dundee last year 1 person every 5 days died a drug related death. If we are serious about stopping this then we need to legalise it or make safe zones for drug testing, consumption, and needle exchange. There really isn't much of an alternative as if we do nothing it will get worse, more loved ones will die and addicts slumped in streets, needles found in playparks will become more prominent

Etizolam is the absolute main reason why Dundee and Scotland as a whole has such high drug deaths. An absolute Russian roulette everytime they are taken especially when mixed with other illicit drugs and at 30p a pill it isn't going anywhere. If we can regulate it, test it alongside heroin and make sure it is safe then these figures plummet imo. It's as simple as that.

Why do we need different laws that don’t have the horrific results we have than the rest of the Uk?
The Scottish government were warned when they cut funding what would happen....and fückin ignored it.
Until the Scottish government are brought to account we will continue to suffer these horrific stats.
We have people who vote for a party that has one fückin policy and when everything starts failing...look to blame someone else...usually the ‘Toareez’ which is only a euphemism for ‘the bastārd English’
We are reaping what the SNP have sown.

There are different factors of why drug deaths are worse up here. Same with why Dundee is worse than other places. I understand the points about the SNP but you really are trying to argue with the wrong guy here about it. I'll vote for them as a vehicle for Indy and probably no more. They lost my vote last election because of the drug death situation in my City as I felt that was more important and relevant than Indy at that point in time. My issues now is how we stop the spiralling drug deaths and how we start saving lives

It needs proper funding and support not different laws.
It’s about budget choices.
The SNP love virtue signalling policies.
A GP doesn’t need a £500 bonus for not seeing patients.
A new mother doesn’t need a baby box.
All the above plus the ferries, education, bifab and closed hospitals are ALWAYS more relevant than independence.
People who vote for the SNP ONLY because of independence are part of and complicit in the problems that beset Scotland.

That was the first opportunity I have had to vote for the SNP or not in an election since I had read up about the drug death situation in Dundee in particular. If things don't improve then i'll consider the same approach. I'm confident now that pressure will be put on the powers to address the situation head on

You think this has only just happened?
You think pressure hasn’t been exerted in the previous years when we were still the worst in Europe?
They couldn’t give a fück. They only care about independence.
You need to open yer eyes.
A vote for the SNP makes you complicit.

The drug death stats being made headline news and my understanding and research on it has only happened in the last few years. I've made a point at the ballot the first opportunity I have had so not really much else I can do on that front. I do think that whoever is in power should have full control over it if they want to make definite improvements though. Surely that makes sense. It is about damage limitation now and improving for future generations. What exactly do you suggest we do to stop the alarming rate of deaths? I've just seen finger pointing from you without any real solution.

Eh?
Did you miss the bit about proper funding?
Budget choices?
They were warned when they cut the budget what would happen and so it came to pass, unfortunately.
Did you miss all that!

Ok fair enough. Any suggestion of what we do with any money made available again? What do you think the budget should be spent on?

Quote from: TheVoiceOfReason on December 16, 2020, 02:13:05 pm

Quote from: The Wet Blanket 2020 on December 16, 2020, 02:08:09 pm

Quote from: Hardliner on December 16, 2020, 01:15:17 pm

Very good discussion lads! Some thought provoking posts.

Your potential new area of employment sounds interesting, Fremsley.  I'd be interested in hearing more although don't want you doxxing yourself.  Only Brenty gets away with doxxing!

Regarding Mo's comments about putting them down if all else fails, I don't believe he's coming from a position of hate but of logic and compassion for the victims of junkies.

The person would have already been given a serious second chance at making something of their life, one which was paid for by taxpayers in spite of crimes they may have committed to fuel their habit.  It'd be hard to continue to try and help someone if they keeping causing harm to people again and again, especially if they didn't show remorse or a willingness to change IMO.  Why should the junky get chance after chance when the victim who stumbles on a needle, or gets robbed or killed may not get that luxury, through the fault of the junky?

Personally, I wouldn't put them down, maybe a life in jail or somewhere more secure without chance of them feeding their habit.

I have one particular source which I won't try to force upon you but in which I believe answers can be found.  Addictions can't be beaten by replacement or by doing it legally or 'safely'.. they can only be beaten by the person not doing the thing and keeping away from it and those who may have it.  All IMO of course!!

I also don't think we should treat these people as financial statistics by saying rehab is good economically.  I'd be willing to pay good money to help people have another chance, but it couldn't go on forever.

It's in the balance just now Hardliner but i'll happily share information when I can

I do 100% agree with you about addicts wanting to stop but I do believe that there has to be more done to give them that opportunity. Perhaps less stigma around addiction would help as I can only imagine they are constantly fighting a losing battle. Pretty sure Dundee is one of the few Cities that doesn't have a rehab centre which in itself is rather alarming considering the magnitude of it here, and I hope now this will be addressed.

I think if we can start taking them by individual cases and understanding that some do want help and not everyone is mugging old ladies. Generalising them all as scum is part of the problem imo. The amount of needless crime and violence I've seen due to alcohol far more outweighs what I have seen due to drug addiction.

The SNP have legislated AGAINST alcohol.....but you want them to legislate FOR drugs.
Fückin really?

Not sure why you keep using the SNP as some stick to beat me with. I'm not, Buc

My point on the alcohol is about the stigma about each addiction and how we view addicts compared to some dafty in the street smashing up cars and assaulting folk