Post by: guest17 on October 22, 2020, 06:57:54 pm
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/politics/4032146/scotland-natural-resources-figures-oil-gas-north-sea/&ved=2ahUKEwizlr6x18jsAhXEolwKHdtrBT4QFjANegQIFxAB&usg=AOvVaw3avN8H6vQG762LsyktNkfzA sep quotes the Sun 🙈 from a year and a half ago 🙈😂
He thinks we’re all as thick as him.
Post by: guest16 on October 22, 2020, 06:20:41 pm
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/politics/4032146/scotland-natural-resources-figures-oil-gas-north-sea/&ved=2ahUKEwizlr6x18jsAhXEolwKHdtrBT4QFjANegQIFxAB&usg=AOvVaw3avN8H6vQG762LsyktNkfzA sep quotes the Sun 🙈 from a year and a half ago 🙈😂
Post by: guest3 on October 22, 2020, 06:11:06 pm
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/politics/4032146/scotland-natural-resources-figures-oil-gas-north-sea/&ved=2ahUKEwizlr6x18jsAhXEolwKHdtrBT4QFjANegQIFxAB&usg=AOvVaw3avN8H6vQG762LsyktNkfzWorrying times for the oil industry and the north east. Thanks for posting.
Post by: Buc on October 22, 2020, 06:05:33 pm
Post by: guest16 on October 22, 2020, 11:43:11 am
Ain't no stopping us now. Oh YES !!!!!!!Dream on.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VgYczUH-QWQ
Boris says no 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Post by: Buc on October 22, 2020, 09:39:51 am
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VgYczUH-QWQ
Post by: guest16 on October 22, 2020, 09:01:45 am
Post by: guest16 on October 22, 2020, 09:00:16 am
Whenever I read Peters post them 3 words made me laugh 😂I think that a kind of social deal will need to be done with unionists as we approach independence. There will need to be a form of acceptance and even reconciliation at a national level.
That deal will be that they join in working for the best interests of an independent Scotland and they get to keep their monarchy.
When IndyRef2 happens after Boris makes a sudden U-turn(No sniggering at the back), the Nhationalists win (Again, no sniggering!) and the social deal is made (What did I tell you about sniggering!?!) then we'd just wait til Scotland goes t1ts up and campaign for a 3rd referendum, which the Unionists would win. The Union would welcome us back in as the Scottish Tories will have kept rUK sweet.
It'd be like the Darien Scheme scenario all over again.
It’s unlikely to be like the Darien scheme again. Scotland has a first world economic infrastructure and is rich in water and energy, as well being a net exporter of goods.
It’s also rich in land and is likely to experience hyper economic growth as at least half a million people move to Scotland from England in the 10 year post independence, bringing their skills, wealth and tax revenues with them.
Rich in water😂
Post by: guest20 on October 21, 2020, 10:30:58 pm
On that basis England should be minted ;DI think that a kind of social deal will need to be done with unionists as we approach independence. There will need to be a form of acceptance and even reconciliation at a national level.
That deal will be that they join in working for the best interests of an independent Scotland and they get to keep their monarchy.
When IndyRef2 happens after Boris makes a sudden U-turn(No sniggering at the back), the Nhationalists win (Again, no sniggering!) and the social deal is made (What did I tell you about sniggering!?!) then we'd just wait til Scotland goes t1ts up and campaign for a 3rd referendum, which the Unionists would win. The Union would welcome us back in as the Scottish Tories will have kept rUK sweet.
It'd be like the Darien Scheme scenario all over again.
It’s unlikely to be like the Darien scheme again. Scotland has a first world economic infrastructure and is rich in water and energy, as well being a net exporter of goods.
It’s also rich in land and is likely to experience hyper economic growth as at least half a million people move to Scotland from England in the 10 year post independence, bringing their skills, wealth and tax revenues with them.
Rich in water😂
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 10:24:23 pm
I think that a kind of social deal will need to be done with unionists as we approach independence. There will need to be a form of acceptance and even reconciliation at a national level.
That deal will be that they join in working for the best interests of an independent Scotland and they get to keep their monarchy.
When IndyRef2 happens after Boris makes a sudden U-turn(No sniggering at the back), the Nhationalists win (Again, no sniggering!) and the social deal is made (What did I tell you about sniggering!?!) then we'd just wait til Scotland goes t1ts up and campaign for a 3rd referendum, which the Unionists would win. The Union would welcome us back in as the Scottish Tories will have kept rUK sweet.
It'd be like the Darien Scheme scenario all over again.
It’s unlikely to be like the Darien scheme again. Scotland has a first world economic infrastructure and is rich in water and energy, as well being a net exporter of goods.
It’s also rich in land and is likely to experience hyper economic growth as at least half a million people move to Scotland from England in the 10 year post independence, bringing their skills, wealth and tax revenues with them.
Rich in water😂
Post by: guest19 on October 21, 2020, 10:23:24 pm
I think that a kind of social deal will need to be done with unionists as we approach independence. There will need to be a form of acceptance and even reconciliation at a national level.
That deal will be that they join in working for the best interests of an independent Scotland and they get to keep their monarchy.
When IndyRef2 happens after Boris makes a sudden U-turn(No sniggering at the back), the Nhationalists win (Again, no sniggering!) and the social deal is made (What did I tell you about sniggering!?!) then we'd just wait til Scotland goes t1ts up and campaign for a 3rd referendum, which the Unionists would win. The Union would welcome us back in as the Scottish Tories will have kept rUK sweet.
It'd be like the Darien Scheme scenario all over again.
It’s unlikely to be like the Darien scheme again. Scotland has a first world economic infrastructure and is rich in water and energy, as well being a net exporter of goods.
It’s also rich in land and is likely to experience hyper economic growth as at least half a million people move to Scotland from England in the 10 year post independence, bringing their skills, wealth and tax revenues with them.
Darien Scheme it is mate, we'd be divorcing with a mammoth amount of debt, with a lefty government who wouldn't have a clue how to pay it off, surrounded by hostile neighbours who won't share their currency with us. Higher taxes would mean businesses jumping south of the border, along with our brightest and best who'd go down south for better job opportunities. Due to the EU refusing our debt-riddled membership application with Catalan flags drawn on it in biro, we wouldn't receive any bailouts either.
At least we'd be taught a lesson and wouldn't try the same stunt again 'til everyone forgets.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 10:10:12 pm
I think that a kind of social deal will need to be done with unionists as we approach independence. There will need to be a form of acceptance and even reconciliation at a national level.
That deal will be that they join in working for the best interests of an independent Scotland and they get to keep their monarchy.
When IndyRef2 happens after Boris makes a sudden U-turn(No sniggering at the back), the Nhationalists win (Again, no sniggering!) and the social deal is made (What did I tell you about sniggering!?!) then we'd just wait til Scotland goes t1ts up and campaign for a 3rd referendum, which the Unionists would win. The Union would welcome us back in as the Scottish Tories will have kept rUK sweet.
It'd be like the Darien Scheme scenario all over again.
It’s unlikely to be like the Darien scheme again. Scotland has a first world economic infrastructure and is rich in water and energy, as well being a net exporter of goods.
It’s also rich in land and is likely to experience hyper economic growth as at least half a million people move to Scotland from England in the 10 year post independence, bringing their skills, wealth and tax revenues with them.
Post by: guest19 on October 21, 2020, 09:50:06 pm
I think that a kind of social deal will need to be done with unionists as we approach independence. There will need to be a form of acceptance and even reconciliation at a national level.
That deal will be that they join in working for the best interests of an independent Scotland and they get to keep their monarchy.
When IndyRef2 happens after Boris makes a sudden U-turn(No sniggering at the back), the Nhationalists win (Again, no sniggering!) and the social deal is made (What did I tell you about sniggering!?!) then we'd just wait til Scotland goes t1ts up and campaign for a 3rd referendum, which the Unionists would win. The Union would welcome us back in as the Scottish Tories will have kept rUK sweet.
It'd be like the Darien Scheme scenario all over again.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 09:36:43 pm
That deal will be that they join in working for the best interests of an independent Scotland and they get to keep their monarchy.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 09:34:25 pm
Post by: guest19 on October 21, 2020, 09:07:40 pm
Everyone knows Scotland will be welcomed into the EU if it wishes to join post independence. All we really need though is single market membership and there won’t be any barrier to that.Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one. I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.
This would depend on the EU completely reversing their position on Scotland's entry to the EU though.
The Unionists told the truth in 2014, an independent Scotland would have meant no EU membership.
The seps lied about eu membership.
The dafties fell for and are still falling for it.
Very true.
Now they are holding onto a fake promise of guaranteed EU membership after a No vote which was never the case.
A bit like their lies over The Vow, which was actually kept.
They talked a heavy amount of p1sh about the oil price too, which conveniently they don't mention any more.
Looking forward to the investment in Scotland from businesses around the globe as businesses choose Scotland over London for their expansions and investments.
I don't think we'd be allowed in.
Post by: guest20 on October 21, 2020, 08:41:18 pm
I’d say places that can offer great roads and motorways to ports (if the investor is making stuff) will be the key.reckon plenty of places trump Scotland for that mate.Everyone knows Scotland will be welcomed into the EU if it wishes to join post independence. All we really need though is single market membership and there won’t be any barrier to that.Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one. I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.
This would depend on the EU completely reversing their position on Scotland's entry to the EU though.
The Unionists told the truth in 2014, an independent Scotland would have meant no EU membership.
The seps lied about eu membership.
The dafties fell for and are still falling for it.
Very true.
Now they are holding onto a fake promise of guaranteed EU membership after a No vote which was never the case.
A bit like their lies over The Vow, which was actually kept.
They talked a heavy amount of p1sh about the oil price too, which conveniently they don't mention any more.
Looking forward to the investment in Scotland from businesses around the globe as businesses choose Scotland over London for their expansions and investments.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 06:15:29 pm
Everyone knows Scotland will be welcomed into the EU if it wishes to join post independence. All we really need though is single market membership and there won’t be any barrier to that.Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one. I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.
This would depend on the EU completely reversing their position on Scotland's entry to the EU though.
The Unionists told the truth in 2014, an independent Scotland would have meant no EU membership.
The seps lied about eu membership.
The dafties fell for and are still falling for it.
Very true.
Now they are holding onto a fake promise of guaranteed EU membership after a No vote which was never the case.
A bit like their lies over The Vow, which was actually kept.
They talked a heavy amount of p1sh about the oil price too, which conveniently they don't mention any more.
Looking forward to the investment in Scotland from businesses around the globe as businesses choose Scotland over London for their expansions and investments.
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 06:06:05 pm
Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one. I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.
This would depend on the EU completely reversing their position on Scotland's entry to the EU though.
The Unionists told the truth in 2014, an independent Scotland would have meant no EU membership.
The seps lied about eu membership.
The dafties fell for and are still falling for it.
Very true.
Now they are holding onto a fake promise of guaranteed EU membership after a No vote which was never the case.
A bit like their lies over The Vow, which was actually kept.
They talked a heavy amount of p1sh about the oil price too, which conveniently they don't mention any more.
Oil was only ever a bonus.....
Post by: guest19 on October 21, 2020, 05:46:29 pm
Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one. I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.
This would depend on the EU completely reversing their position on Scotland's entry to the EU though.
The Unionists told the truth in 2014, an independent Scotland would have meant no EU membership.
The seps lied about eu membership.
The dafties fell for and are still falling for it.
Very true.
Now they are holding onto a fake promise of guaranteed EU membership after a No vote which was never the case.
A bit like their lies over The Vow, which was actually kept.
They talked a heavy amount of p1sh about the oil price too, which conveniently they don't mention any more.
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 05:11:46 pm
Are you stupid?The benefits culture that the snp have caused in scotland is a disgrace.
Eh? They’ve only had control of benefits for about 5 minutes, and employment has been at record levels in the past 10 years!
😂
Only one answer to that.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 05:11:43 pm
🙄Most people have mortgages, Thickstuff. My assets are worth more than my debt and I am solvent day to day for which I am thankful.I don’t care if a small percentage of the population ducks out of work. They won’t have the life I have and I wouldn’t swap places with them.I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.Pre Covid anyone who wanted a job in England could get one, maybe the rate might need raising on the minimum wage but the jobs were there. Unfortunately we have a element of our people who think work is a choice and expect the state to fund them not to work. Crackers imo.Im sure Scotland has its fair share of these. The proof about the jobs? Easy. Why are so many EEs able to get jobs but a bloke over the road from the factory can’t or won’t. No blame attached to the EEs or any immigrant by me. I blame the successive governments who have allowed people to duck out of work
The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.
The cost to society in terms of cash is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Benefits are a drop in the ocean compared to the tax which is not being collected from business.
So I guess I just don’t care if a small percentage of people sit on their arses and do very little.
You told us you were c300k in debt.
Some life.
Would I want to swap places with someone who doesn’t work and watches TV all day on benefits? No. But I certainly don’t hate, resent or think these people are causing some kind of massive problem.
S U R E
Noah’s upset.
You Coyne and Buc should start a sub board where you can brag away to your hearts content.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 05:11:11 pm
Are you stupid?The benefits culture that the snp have caused in scotland is a disgrace.
Eh? They’ve only had control of benefits for about 5 minutes, and employment has been at record levels in the past 10 years!
😂
That’s subjective.
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 05:10:31 pm
Are you stupid?The benefits culture that the snp have caused in scotland is a disgrace.
Eh? They’ve only had control of benefits for about 5 minutes, and employment has been at record levels in the past 10 years!
😂
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 05:09:08 pm
Most people have mortgages, Thickstuff. My assets are worth more than my debt and I am solvent day to day for which I am thankful.I don’t care if a small percentage of the population ducks out of work. They won’t have the life I have and I wouldn’t swap places with them.I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.Pre Covid anyone who wanted a job in England could get one, maybe the rate might need raising on the minimum wage but the jobs were there. Unfortunately we have a element of our people who think work is a choice and expect the state to fund them not to work. Crackers imo.Im sure Scotland has its fair share of these. The proof about the jobs? Easy. Why are so many EEs able to get jobs but a bloke over the road from the factory can’t or won’t. No blame attached to the EEs or any immigrant by me. I blame the successive governments who have allowed people to duck out of work
The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.
The cost to society in terms of cash is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Benefits are a drop in the ocean compared to the tax which is not being collected from business.
So I guess I just don’t care if a small percentage of people sit on their arses and do very little.
You told us you were c300k in debt.
Some life.
Would I want to swap places with someone who doesn’t work and watches TV all day on benefits? No. But I certainly don’t hate, resent or think these people are causing some kind of massive problem.
S U R E
Noah’s upset.
You Coyne and Buc should start a sub board where you can brag away to your hearts content.
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 05:06:38 pm
Was it over one billion at the last indy march?Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one. I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.
Add the English vote of 418000 when 75% voted no the last time now there's nothing like that will vote for the union they even turn up in good numbers in our marches for indy.
Maybe 50% . because of Europe.
1.5 I heard.
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 05:05:35 pm
Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one. I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.
This would depend on the EU completely reversing their position on Scotland's entry to the EU though.
The Unionists told the truth in 2014, an independent Scotland would have meant no EU membership.
The seps lied about eu membership.
The dafties fell for and are still falling for it.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 05:01:03 pm
The benefits culture that the snp have caused in scotland is a disgrace.
Eh? They’ve only had control of benefits for about 5 minutes, and employment has been at record levels in the past 10 years!
😂
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 04:54:31 pm
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 04:28:43 pm
Most people have mortgages, Thickstuff. My assets are worth more than my debt and I am solvent day to day for which I am thankful.I don’t care if a small percentage of the population ducks out of work. They won’t have the life I have and I wouldn’t swap places with them.I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.Pre Covid anyone who wanted a job in England could get one, maybe the rate might need raising on the minimum wage but the jobs were there. Unfortunately we have a element of our people who think work is a choice and expect the state to fund them not to work. Crackers imo.Im sure Scotland has its fair share of these. The proof about the jobs? Easy. Why are so many EEs able to get jobs but a bloke over the road from the factory can’t or won’t. No blame attached to the EEs or any immigrant by me. I blame the successive governments who have allowed people to duck out of work
The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.
The cost to society in terms of cash is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Benefits are a drop in the ocean compared to the tax which is not being collected from business.
So I guess I just don’t care if a small percentage of people sit on their arses and do very little.
You told us you were c300k in debt.
Some life.
Would I want to swap places with someone who doesn’t work and watches TV all day on benefits? No. But I certainly don’t hate, resent or think these people are causing some kind of massive problem.
S U R E
Noah’s upset.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 04:27:57 pm
I wouldn’t say I resent the people Peter . I don’t think it is setting good examples thoughMost people have mortgages, Thickstuff. My assets are worth more than my debt and I am solvent day to day for which I am thankful.I don’t care if a small percentage of the population ducks out of work. They won’t have the life I have and I wouldn’t swap places with them.I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.Pre Covid anyone who wanted a job in England could get one, maybe the rate might need raising on the minimum wage but the jobs were there. Unfortunately we have a element of our people who think work is a choice and expect the state to fund them not to work. Crackers imo.Im sure Scotland has its fair share of these. The proof about the jobs? Easy. Why are so many EEs able to get jobs but a bloke over the road from the factory can’t or won’t. No blame attached to the EEs or any immigrant by me. I blame the successive governments who have allowed people to duck out of work
The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.
The cost to society in terms of cash is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Benefits are a drop in the ocean compared to the tax which is not being collected from business.
So I guess I just don’t care if a small percentage of people sit on their arses and do very little.
You told us you were c300k in debt.
Some life.
Would I want to swap places with someone who doesn’t work and watches TV all day on benefits? No. But I certainly don’t hate, resent or think these people are causing some kind of massive problem.
We can’t expect everyone to be perfect though. It is just never going to happen.
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 03:59:47 pm
Most people have mortgages, Thickstuff. My assets are worth more than my debt and I am solvent day to day for which I am thankful.I don’t care if a small percentage of the population ducks out of work. They won’t have the life I have and I wouldn’t swap places with them.I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.Pre Covid anyone who wanted a job in England could get one, maybe the rate might need raising on the minimum wage but the jobs were there. Unfortunately we have a element of our people who think work is a choice and expect the state to fund them not to work. Crackers imo.Im sure Scotland has its fair share of these. The proof about the jobs? Easy. Why are so many EEs able to get jobs but a bloke over the road from the factory can’t or won’t. No blame attached to the EEs or any immigrant by me. I blame the successive governments who have allowed people to duck out of work
The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.
The cost to society in terms of cash is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Benefits are a drop in the ocean compared to the tax which is not being collected from business.
So I guess I just don’t care if a small percentage of people sit on their arses and do very little.
You told us you were c300k in debt.
Some life.
Would I want to swap places with someone who doesn’t work and watches TV all day on benefits? No. But I certainly don’t hate, resent or think these people are causing some kind of massive problem.
S U R E
Post by: guest20 on October 21, 2020, 03:59:38 pm
I wouldn’t say I resent the people Peter . I don’t think it is setting good examples thoughMost people have mortgages, Thickstuff. My assets are worth more than my debt and I am solvent day to day for which I am thankful.I don’t care if a small percentage of the population ducks out of work. They won’t have the life I have and I wouldn’t swap places with them.I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.Pre Covid anyone who wanted a job in England could get one, maybe the rate might need raising on the minimum wage but the jobs were there. Unfortunately we have a element of our people who think work is a choice and expect the state to fund them not to work. Crackers imo.Im sure Scotland has its fair share of these. The proof about the jobs? Easy. Why are so many EEs able to get jobs but a bloke over the road from the factory can’t or won’t. No blame attached to the EEs or any immigrant by me. I blame the successive governments who have allowed people to duck out of work
The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.
The cost to society in terms of cash is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Benefits are a drop in the ocean compared to the tax which is not being collected from business.
So I guess I just don’t care if a small percentage of people sit on their arses and do very little.
You told us you were c300k in debt.
Some life.
Would I want to swap places with someone who doesn’t work and watches TV all day on benefits? No. But I certainly don’t hate, resent or think these people are causing some kind of massive problem.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 03:55:44 pm
Most people have mortgages, Thickstuff. My assets are worth more than my debt and I am solvent day to day for which I am thankful.I don’t care if a small percentage of the population ducks out of work. They won’t have the life I have and I wouldn’t swap places with them.I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.Pre Covid anyone who wanted a job in England could get one, maybe the rate might need raising on the minimum wage but the jobs were there. Unfortunately we have a element of our people who think work is a choice and expect the state to fund them not to work. Crackers imo.Im sure Scotland has its fair share of these. The proof about the jobs? Easy. Why are so many EEs able to get jobs but a bloke over the road from the factory can’t or won’t. No blame attached to the EEs or any immigrant by me. I blame the successive governments who have allowed people to duck out of work
The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.
The cost to society in terms of cash is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Benefits are a drop in the ocean compared to the tax which is not being collected from business.
So I guess I just don’t care if a small percentage of people sit on their arses and do very little.
You told us you were c300k in debt.
Some life.
Would I want to swap places with someone who doesn’t work and watches TV all day on benefits? No. But I certainly don’t hate, resent or think these people are causing some kind of massive problem.
Post by: guest20 on October 21, 2020, 03:52:05 pm
I don’t care if a small percentage of the population ducks out of work. They won’t have the life I have and I wouldn’t swap places with them.I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.Pre Covid anyone who wanted a job in England could get one, maybe the rate might need raising on the minimum wage but the jobs were there. Unfortunately we have a element of our people who think work is a choice and expect the state to fund them not to work. Crackers imo.Im sure Scotland has its fair share of these. The proof about the jobs? Easy. Why are so many EEs able to get jobs but a bloke over the road from the factory can’t or won’t. No blame attached to the EEs or any immigrant by me. I blame the successive governments who have allowed people to duck out of work
The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.
The cost to society in terms of cash is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Benefits are a drop in the ocean compared to the tax which is not being collected from business.
So I guess I just don’t care if a small percentage of people sit on their arses and do very little.
If they are Ill fine but a moral compass has been broken so I do care.
I pay my tax and want it spent on the common good, the weaker members of our society and the vulnerable. Not some work shy layabouts. Let’s face it most jobs these days you can sit on your cracker pressing a few buttons so it’s hardly hernia material is it!
Hope your Indy Scotland don’t mind picking the bill up for these folk.
Agree about multi nationals and the likes though
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 03:41:22 pm
I don’t care if a small percentage of the population ducks out of work. They won’t have the life I have and I wouldn’t swap places with them.I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.Pre Covid anyone who wanted a job in England could get one, maybe the rate might need raising on the minimum wage but the jobs were there. Unfortunately we have a element of our people who think work is a choice and expect the state to fund them not to work. Crackers imo.Im sure Scotland has its fair share of these. The proof about the jobs? Easy. Why are so many EEs able to get jobs but a bloke over the road from the factory can’t or won’t. No blame attached to the EEs or any immigrant by me. I blame the successive governments who have allowed people to duck out of work
The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.
The cost to society in terms of cash is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Benefits are a drop in the ocean compared to the tax which is not being collected from business.
So I guess I just don’t care if a small percentage of people sit on their arses and do very little.
You told us you were c300k in debt.
Some life.
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 03:35:38 pm
Come on mate, there was more than that. The same number that was in Seville by all accounts.Was it over one billion at the last indy march?Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one. I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.
Add the English vote of 418000 when 75% voted no the last time now there's nothing like that will vote for the union they even turn up in good numbers in our marches for indy.
Maybe 50% . because of Europe.
Post by: Cooheid on October 21, 2020, 03:33:14 pm
Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one. I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.
This would depend on the EU completely reversing their position on Scotland's entry to the EU though.
The Unionists told the truth in 2014, an independent Scotland would have meant no EU membership.
That’s true, I doubt you’d get any such assurances from the eu before any referendum. Voting yes this time would be their only chance to get that back though, that wasn’t the case in 2014.
Who knows though, people are funny.
Post by: guest3 on October 21, 2020, 03:27:52 pm
Was it over one billion at the last indy march?Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one. I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.
Add the English vote of 418000 when 75% voted no the last time now there's nothing like that will vote for the union they even turn up in good numbers in our marches for indy.
Maybe 50% . because of Europe.
Post by: Buc on October 21, 2020, 03:24:52 pm
Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one. I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.
Add the English vote of 418000 when 75% voted no the last time now there's nothing like that will vote for the union they even turn up in good numbers in our marches for indy.
Maybe 50% . because of Europe.
Post by: guest19 on October 21, 2020, 03:24:32 pm
Eu citizens are going to a huge factor if there is another one. I worked with 40 or so at the time of the last referendum and most were going to vote no, don’t blame them given what they were told. That would be completely reversed this time around after brexit, I’m not sure how many we have in this country, think I heard circa 300,000 but that could be wrong. That’s a huge swing the other way.
This would depend on the EU completely reversing their position on Scotland's entry to the EU though.
The Unionists told the truth in 2014, an independent Scotland would have meant no EU membership.
Post by: Cooheid on October 21, 2020, 03:15:52 pm
Post by: guest19 on October 21, 2020, 03:11:19 pm
And JTC, the SNP are polling in the high 50s for Holyrood and Westminster.Polls are only a indication of how people are honking at the moment in time. Also they can be skewed by askin an question a certain way or asking a certain type of person.You held pole position on the grid in 14.
It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.
That will be 60% thinking the SNP and Greens are best in Scotland (if it happens).Not the best in the UK or saying they want a Indy ref . Of course they will attach a Indy ref to their policy, they have to.I doubt that will be why X amount will be voting for them though
Think about it. In England people have voted the Tories as the main party. Do you seriously think a lot want to vote Tory?The stark fact is a decent amount would not but faced ( pre CV) with a choice of Tories or a plan off Labour which seems extreme to a lot of their natural supporters they vote Tory because what they have they want to keep and basically are not prepared to risk their house and job on a unproven set of policies in the U.K.They have probably noticed when the said policies have been tried elsewhere they have brought a disastrous result .
You also have to consider the independence polling. A majority now consistently back independence.
If an election campaign is fought with a manifesto commitment to a referendum front and centre and then there is a landslide victory, there will be a referendum.
The numbers backing independence now mirror the level of SNP and Green support.
Unionists have got to face up to reality. Or don’t, I’m fine with that.
I don't think it's fair to say that a majority now consistently back independence. All we are going by are opinion polls, commissioned by those with a pro-Independence agenda, with loaded lead up questions and final question, small sample sizes, large numbers of undecideds by polling companies who on the run up to the referendum consistently showed results which were way more favourable to separation than the result was.
As well as this, these polls only span a period of 5 months, where Nicola Thatcher the Pint Snatcher has a huge PR advantage with her daily briefings. Not only this, but the emotions of remainers are running high with Brexit having taken place and some loose ends still being tied. Also, none of the issues such as the UK single market, a hard border, currency, the SNP's push for children to be able to choose their own gender, reality of Scotland even being allowed to enter the EU if it becomes a Nation.
A quick example of how these polls are riddled with spoofery is the apparent notion that support for separation has went up 5% in the space of a few days for no apparent reason. They are not an accurate reflection of the opinion of Scots.
There's nothing to suggest they'll remain a great deal longer than the current 5 months of which we are supposed to base splitting up the Nation on. In fact, the polls even showed support for separation going down other than the latest mad outlier which was presumably commissioned by Paul McKenna (going by the lead up questions anyway).
In short, this polling is bullsh1t.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/hS2hBTeUUukrMy7rxn/giphy.gif)
The Times and YouGov do not have an independence agenda. The polling experts such as Professor Curtice do think it is fair to say that the view is now consistently Yes.
Polling has an excellent track record n Scotland and Unionists didn’t doubt them when they yielded results which are pleased them.
I kindly refer you to the following link, which shows that far from having an 'excellent track record', they actually consistently showed the gap between No and Yes to be far lower than the 11% it turned out to be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2014_Scottish_independence_referendum
The Times and YouGov may not have an independence agenda, but Agnes Robertson the humble crofter does. I also do not believe Curtice has stated that these 5 month opinion polls are a true reflection of the mood of Scotland, although I'm happy to be proven wrong on this one.
The polls versus the 2014 outcome are pretty much spot on because there are no Don’t Knows in the final outcome.
Curtice has stated that these polls now reflect a consistent position for the Scottish electorate.
It has been 13 months since the union polled over 50%. Now down to 39%.
If they were spot on, then there must have been a huge proportion of the don't knows reverting to No. I'd imagine this would be the same this time round. Even with that, the pre-referendum polling was still far too favourable to Separation than it turned out to be on the day.
Do you have a link to Curtice saying this?
The Union polling over 50% is not the benchmark, Yes being higher than No is.. which has only happened for 5 months.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 02:44:06 pm
I don’t care if a small percentage of the population ducks out of work. They won’t have the life I have and I wouldn’t swap places with them.I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.Pre Covid anyone who wanted a job in England could get one, maybe the rate might need raising on the minimum wage but the jobs were there. Unfortunately we have a element of our people who think work is a choice and expect the state to fund them not to work. Crackers imo.Im sure Scotland has its fair share of these. The proof about the jobs? Easy. Why are so many EEs able to get jobs but a bloke over the road from the factory can’t or won’t. No blame attached to the EEs or any immigrant by me. I blame the successive governments who have allowed people to duck out of work
The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.
The cost to society in terms of cash is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Benefits are a drop in the ocean compared to the tax which is not being collected from business.
So I guess I just don’t care if a small percentage of people sit on their arses and do very little.
Post by: guest20 on October 21, 2020, 02:40:50 pm
I don’t think the electorate in England is very well placed to lecture other countries on “economic suicide”. Or on any aspect of economic management come to that.Pre Covid anyone who wanted a job in England could get one, maybe the rate might need raising on the minimum wage but the jobs were there. Unfortunately we have a element of our people who think work is a choice and expect the state to fund them not to work. Crackers imo.Im sure Scotland has its fair share of these. The proof about the jobs? Easy. Why are so many EEs able to get jobs but a bloke over the road from the factory can’t or won’t. No blame attached to the EEs or any immigrant by me. I blame the successive governments who have allowed people to duck out of work
The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 02:09:22 pm
The unionists pushed their luck too far since 2014. It will be very much an uphill struggle to convince voters to back them again.
Post by: guest20 on October 21, 2020, 02:06:34 pm
I’m still confident that when push comes to shove the people will see the value of the UnionAnd JTC, the SNP are polling in the high 50s for Holyrood and Westminster.Polls are only a indication of how people are honking at the moment in time. Also they can be skewed by askin an question a certain way or asking a certain type of person.You held pole position on the grid in 14.
It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.
That will be 60% thinking the SNP and Greens are best in Scotland (if it happens).Not the best in the UK or saying they want a Indy ref . Of course they will attach a Indy ref to their policy, they have to.I doubt that will be why X amount will be voting for them though
Think about it. In England people have voted the Tories as the main party. Do you seriously think a lot want to vote Tory?The stark fact is a decent amount would not but faced ( pre CV) with a choice of Tories or a plan off Labour which seems extreme to a lot of their natural supporters they vote Tory because what they have they want to keep and basically are not prepared to risk their house and job on a unproven set of policies in the U.K.They have probably noticed when the said policies have been tried elsewhere they have brought a disastrous result .
You also have to consider the independence polling. A majority now consistently back independence.
If an election campaign is fought with a manifesto commitment to a referendum front and centre and then there is a landslide victory, there will be a referendum.
The numbers backing independence now mirror the level of SNP and Green support.
Unionists have got to face up to reality. Or don’t, I’m fine with that.
Of course when Nicola explains what currency you will be using and how much it’s going to cost for a wagon or car to go through the customs border all will be well. You don’t seriously think the English / rest of the U.K. won’t do the border?Its got to happen. Wales and England have voted in Brexit for tighter immigration controls. Wee Nicola is inviting all and sundry. No British Government can allow your invited immigration into a land where the people voted not to invite so many.
You may end up being bottlenecked unless you open shipping ports.Thats before the high earners bolt to Carlise
I’m all for choices mate believe me. And if that means you leaving then so be it but I seriously doubt when all The consequences are laid bare that you will have 50.1% voting for economic suicide.
It would also help if the SNP stopped their anti English rabble rousing. The rubbish that comes out of their mouths is fuelling a anti English sentiment.If we were a different colour(as many SNP view us as white and fair game)there would be debates about racism going on . Obviously the media have been brought up in Scotland so the papers arnt picking up on this.
I hopefully will be in Scotland this coming week. I glad it’s Castle Douglas as the area isn’t rabid SNP I believe. Having experience of being in Glasgow in 14 and 15 Where I could sense a change in the air I’m glad I’m going where I’m going. In Glasgow I tried to help a drunken man in a Celtic top. I talked to him about AA. Did my level best as a recovered alcoholic. After He departed my friend who was living in Shawlands at the time told me he had said on Viewing us ‘ you pair of dirty English barstools’Im glad I didn’t hear it to be honest as I may have had a few choice words for Him!
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 01:53:22 pm
What an awful attempt at a put down🙈Hmmmm. I’ve searched back and I don’t see you having any issue with Noah (83 followers) calling Buc a “thick argument plumber” over and over again. Hmmmmm. 🤔
Thick argument plumber?
Dear God.
So sorry Thickness, I was typing in the rain with a wet screen And it’s really not important enough for me to take care when I am typing on this forum.
Hope that’s understood. 😎
‘Typing in the rain with a wet screen’
Away and get a fückin life mate.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 01:52:03 pm
And JTC, the SNP are polling in the high 50s for Holyrood and Westminster.Polls are only a indication of how people are honking at the moment in time. Also they can be skewed by askin an question a certain way or asking a certain type of person.You held pole position on the grid in 14.
It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.
That will be 60% thinking the SNP and Greens are best in Scotland (if it happens).Not the best in the UK or saying they want a Indy ref . Of course they will attach a Indy ref to their policy, they have to.I doubt that will be why X amount will be voting for them though
Think about it. In England people have voted the Tories as the main party. Do you seriously think a lot want to vote Tory?The stark fact is a decent amount would not but faced ( pre CV) with a choice of Tories or a plan off Labour which seems extreme to a lot of their natural supporters they vote Tory because what they have they want to keep and basically are not prepared to risk their house and job on a unproven set of policies in the U.K.They have probably noticed when the said policies have been tried elsewhere they have brought a disastrous result .
You also have to consider the independence polling. A majority now consistently back independence.
If an election campaign is fought with a manifesto commitment to a referendum front and centre and then there is a landslide victory, there will be a referendum.
The numbers backing independence now mirror the level of SNP and Green support.
Unionists have got to face up to reality. Or don’t, I’m fine with that.
I don't think it's fair to say that a majority now consistently back independence. All we are going by are opinion polls, commissioned by those with a pro-Independence agenda, with loaded lead up questions and final question, small sample sizes, large numbers of undecideds by polling companies who on the run up to the referendum consistently showed results which were way more favourable to separation than the result was.
As well as this, these polls only span a period of 5 months, where Nicola Thatcher the Pint Snatcher has a huge PR advantage with her daily briefings. Not only this, but the emotions of remainers are running high with Brexit having taken place and some loose ends still being tied. Also, none of the issues such as the UK single market, a hard border, currency, the SNP's push for children to be able to choose their own gender, reality of Scotland even being allowed to enter the EU if it becomes a Nation.
A quick example of how these polls are riddled with spoofery is the apparent notion that support for separation has went up 5% in the space of a few days for no apparent reason. They are not an accurate reflection of the opinion of Scots.
There's nothing to suggest they'll remain a great deal longer than the current 5 months of which we are supposed to base splitting up the Nation on. In fact, the polls even showed support for separation going down other than the latest mad outlier which was presumably commissioned by Paul McKenna (going by the lead up questions anyway).
In short, this polling is bullsh1t.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/hS2hBTeUUukrMy7rxn/giphy.gif)
The Times and YouGov do not have an independence agenda. The polling experts such as Professor Curtice do think it is fair to say that the view is now consistently Yes.
Polling has an excellent track record n Scotland and Unionists didn’t doubt them when they yielded results which are pleased them.
I kindly refer you to the following link, which shows that far from having an 'excellent track record', they actually consistently showed the gap between No and Yes to be far lower than the 11% it turned out to be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2014_Scottish_independence_referendum
The Times and YouGov may not have an independence agenda, but Agnes Robertson the humble crofter does. I also do not believe Curtice has stated that these 5 month opinion polls are a true reflection of the mood of Scotland, although I'm happy to be proven wrong on this one.
The polls versus the 2014 outcome are pretty much spot on because there are no Don’t Knows in the final outcome.
Curtice has stated that these polls now reflect a consistent position for the Scottish electorate.
It has been 13 months since the union polled over 50%. Now down to 39%.
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 01:48:49 pm
What an awful attempt at a put down🙈Hmmmm. I’ve searched back and I don’t see you having any issue with Noah (83 followers) calling Buc a “thick argument plumber” over and over again. Hmmmmm. 🤔
Doesn't bother me one bit Pete he can call me anything.
But I'm maybe not that thick being able to retire into my early 50s and being self sufficient.
Be good once this Scottish bank is up and running and also some freight ferries starting up in Scotland to Europe I'd say things are moving in the right direction.
I think we should've had these ferries into Europe decades ago .
Ferries 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 01:46:27 pm
What an awful attempt at a put down🙈Hmmmm. I’ve searched back and I don’t see you having any issue with Noah (83 followers) calling Buc a “thick argument plumber” over and over again. Hmmmmm. 🤔
Thick argument plumber?
Dear God.
So sorry Thickness, I was typing in the rain with a wet screen And it’s really not important enough for me to take care when I am typing on this forum.
Hope that’s understood. 😎
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 01:35:49 pm
What an awful attempt at a put down🙈Hmmmm. I’ve searched back and I don’t see you having any issue with Noah (83 followers) calling Buc a “thick argument plumber” over and over again. Hmmmmm. 🤔
Thick argument plumber?
Dear God.
Post by: guest19 on October 21, 2020, 01:18:40 pm
Also, polls have been bad for the unionists for the last 13 months, not 5.
Only 5 I'm afraid.
Post by: guest19 on October 21, 2020, 01:18:13 pm
And JTC, the SNP are polling in the high 50s for Holyrood and Westminster.Polls are only a indication of how people are honking at the moment in time. Also they can be skewed by askin an question a certain way or asking a certain type of person.You held pole position on the grid in 14.
It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.
That will be 60% thinking the SNP and Greens are best in Scotland (if it happens).Not the best in the UK or saying they want a Indy ref . Of course they will attach a Indy ref to their policy, they have to.I doubt that will be why X amount will be voting for them though
Think about it. In England people have voted the Tories as the main party. Do you seriously think a lot want to vote Tory?The stark fact is a decent amount would not but faced ( pre CV) with a choice of Tories or a plan off Labour which seems extreme to a lot of their natural supporters they vote Tory because what they have they want to keep and basically are not prepared to risk their house and job on a unproven set of policies in the U.K.They have probably noticed when the said policies have been tried elsewhere they have brought a disastrous result .
You also have to consider the independence polling. A majority now consistently back independence.
If an election campaign is fought with a manifesto commitment to a referendum front and centre and then there is a landslide victory, there will be a referendum.
The numbers backing independence now mirror the level of SNP and Green support.
Unionists have got to face up to reality. Or don’t, I’m fine with that.
I don't think it's fair to say that a majority now consistently back independence. All we are going by are opinion polls, commissioned by those with a pro-Independence agenda, with loaded lead up questions and final question, small sample sizes, large numbers of undecideds by polling companies who on the run up to the referendum consistently showed results which were way more favourable to separation than the result was.
As well as this, these polls only span a period of 5 months, where Nicola Thatcher the Pint Snatcher has a huge PR advantage with her daily briefings. Not only this, but the emotions of remainers are running high with Brexit having taken place and some loose ends still being tied. Also, none of the issues such as the UK single market, a hard border, currency, the SNP's push for children to be able to choose their own gender, reality of Scotland even being allowed to enter the EU if it becomes a Nation.
A quick example of how these polls are riddled with spoofery is the apparent notion that support for separation has went up 5% in the space of a few days for no apparent reason. They are not an accurate reflection of the opinion of Scots.
There's nothing to suggest they'll remain a great deal longer than the current 5 months of which we are supposed to base splitting up the Nation on. In fact, the polls even showed support for separation going down other than the latest mad outlier which was presumably commissioned by Paul McKenna (going by the lead up questions anyway).
In short, this polling is bullsh1t.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/hS2hBTeUUukrMy7rxn/giphy.gif)
The Times and YouGov do not have an independence agenda. The polling experts such as Professor Curtice do think it is fair to say that the view is now consistently Yes.
Polling has an excellent track record n Scotland and Unionists didn’t doubt them when they yielded results which are pleased them.
I kindly refer you to the following link, which shows that far from having an 'excellent track record', they actually consistently showed the gap between No and Yes to be far lower than the 11% it turned out to be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2014_Scottish_independence_referendum
The Times and YouGov may not have an independence agenda, but Agnes Robertson the humble crofter does. I also do not believe Curtice has stated that these 5 month opinion polls are a true reflection of the mood of Scotland, although I'm happy to be proven wrong on this one.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 01:11:02 pm
Post by: Buc on October 21, 2020, 01:09:58 pm
You never managed to retire at that age. Well there you go, we didn't know 🤔🇬🇧What an awful attempt at a put down🙈Hmmmm. I’ve searched back and I don’t see you having any issue with Noah (83 followers) calling Buc a “thick argument plumber” over and over again. Hmmmmm. 🤔
Doesn't bother me one bit Pete he can call me anything.
But I'm maybe not that thick being able to retire into my early 50s and being self sufficient.
Be good once this Scottish bank is up and running and also some freight ferries starting up in Scotland to Europe I'd say things are moving in the right direction.
I think we should've had these ferries into Europe decades ago .
Retired after I won the cooncil grants when they were going to give loads of work to two contractor's but they didn't because they thought our tenders were similar. When we were pricing for the same stuff I'd say most tenders put in were similar.
2nd was D&R plumbing he took them to court but I couldn't be assed because after that carry on I'd had enough.
If I took them to court I would've won that 5 year contract.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 01:09:25 pm
And JTC, the SNP are polling in the high 50s for Holyrood and Westminster.Polls are only a indication of how people are honking at the moment in time. Also they can be skewed by askin an question a certain way or asking a certain type of person.You held pole position on the grid in 14.
It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.
That will be 60% thinking the SNP and Greens are best in Scotland (if it happens).Not the best in the UK or saying they want a Indy ref . Of course they will attach a Indy ref to their policy, they have to.I doubt that will be why X amount will be voting for them though
Think about it. In England people have voted the Tories as the main party. Do you seriously think a lot want to vote Tory?The stark fact is a decent amount would not but faced ( pre CV) with a choice of Tories or a plan off Labour which seems extreme to a lot of their natural supporters they vote Tory because what they have they want to keep and basically are not prepared to risk their house and job on a unproven set of policies in the U.K.They have probably noticed when the said policies have been tried elsewhere they have brought a disastrous result .
You also have to consider the independence polling. A majority now consistently back independence.
If an election campaign is fought with a manifesto commitment to a referendum front and centre and then there is a landslide victory, there will be a referendum.
The numbers backing independence now mirror the level of SNP and Green support.
Unionists have got to face up to reality. Or don’t, I’m fine with that.
I don't think it's fair to say that a majority now consistently back independence. All we are going by are opinion polls, commissioned by those with a pro-Independence agenda, with loaded lead up questions and final question, small sample sizes, large numbers of undecideds by polling companies who on the run up to the referendum consistently showed results which were way more favourable to separation than the result was.
As well as this, these polls only span a period of 5 months, where Nicola Thatcher the Pint Snatcher has a huge PR advantage with her daily briefings. Not only this, but the emotions of remainers are running high with Brexit having taken place and some loose ends still being tied. Also, none of the issues such as the UK single market, a hard border, currency, the SNP's push for children to be able to choose their own gender, reality of Scotland even being allowed to enter the EU if it becomes a Nation.
A quick example of how these polls are riddled with spoofery is the apparent notion that support for separation has went up 5% in the space of a few days for no apparent reason. They are not an accurate reflection of the opinion of Scots.
There's nothing to suggest they'll remain a great deal longer than the current 5 months of which we are supposed to base splitting up the Nation on. In fact, the polls even showed support for separation going down other than the latest mad outlier which was presumably commissioned by Paul McKenna (going by the lead up questions anyway).
In short, this polling is bullsh1t.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/hS2hBTeUUukrMy7rxn/giphy.gif)
The Times and YouGov do not have an independence agenda. The polling experts such as Professor Curtice do think it is fair to say that the view is now consistently Yes.
Polling has an excellent track record n Scotland and Unionists didn’t doubt them when they yielded results which are pleased them.
Post by: guest19 on October 21, 2020, 01:05:36 pm
And JTC, the SNP are polling in the high 50s for Holyrood and Westminster.Polls are only a indication of how people are honking at the moment in time. Also they can be skewed by askin an question a certain way or asking a certain type of person.You held pole position on the grid in 14.
It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.
That will be 60% thinking the SNP and Greens are best in Scotland (if it happens).Not the best in the UK or saying they want a Indy ref . Of course they will attach a Indy ref to their policy, they have to.I doubt that will be why X amount will be voting for them though
Think about it. In England people have voted the Tories as the main party. Do you seriously think a lot want to vote Tory?The stark fact is a decent amount would not but faced ( pre CV) with a choice of Tories or a plan off Labour which seems extreme to a lot of their natural supporters they vote Tory because what they have they want to keep and basically are not prepared to risk their house and job on a unproven set of policies in the U.K.They have probably noticed when the said policies have been tried elsewhere they have brought a disastrous result .
You also have to consider the independence polling. A majority now consistently back independence.
If an election campaign is fought with a manifesto commitment to a referendum front and centre and then there is a landslide victory, there will be a referendum.
The numbers backing independence now mirror the level of SNP and Green support.
Unionists have got to face up to reality. Or don’t, I’m fine with that.
I don't think it's fair to say that a majority now consistently back independence. All we are going by are opinion polls, commissioned by those with a pro-Independence agenda, with loaded lead up questions and final question, small sample sizes, large numbers of undecideds by polling companies who on the run up to the referendum consistently showed results which were way more favourable to separation than the result was.
As well as this, these polls only span a period of 5 months, where Nicola Thatcher the Pint Snatcher has a huge PR advantage with her daily briefings. Not only this, but the emotions of remainers are running high with Brexit having taken place and some loose ends still being tied. Also, none of the issues such as the UK single market, a hard border, currency, the SNP's push for children to be able to choose their own gender, reality of Scotland even being allowed to enter the EU if it becomes a Nation have been debated yet. Seems all quite emotionally driven and knee-jerk at the moment.
A quick example of how these polls are riddled with spoofery is the apparent notion that support for separation has went up 5% in the space of a few days for no apparent reason. They are not an accurate reflection of the opinion of Scots.
There's nothing to suggest they'll remain as they are a great deal longer than the current 5 months of which we are supposed to base splitting up the Nation on. In fact, the polls even showed support for separation going down other than the latest mad outlier which was presumably commissioned by Paul McKenna (going by the lead up questions anyway).
In short, this polling is bullsh1t.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/hS2hBTeUUukrMy7rxn/giphy.gif)
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 01:04:40 pm
Very well said. I saw an excellent video yesterday from Commonweal on the setting up of the Scottish pound.What an awful attempt at a put down🙈Hmmmm. I’ve searched back and I don’t see you having any issue with Noah (83 followers) calling Buc a “thick argument plumber” over and over again. Hmmmmm. 🤔
Doesn't bother me one bit Pete he can call me anything.
But I'm maybe not that thick being able to retire into my early 50s and being self sufficient.
Be good once this Scottish bank is up and running and also some freight ferries starting up in Scotland to Europe I'd say things are moving in the right direction.
I think we should've had these ferries into Europe decades ago .
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 01:03:37 pm
You never managed to retire at that age. Well there you go, we didn't know 🤔🇬🇧What an awful attempt at a put down🙈Hmmmm. I’ve searched back and I don’t see you having any issue with Noah (83 followers) calling Buc a “thick argument plumber” over and over again. Hmmmmm. 🤔
Doesn't bother me one bit Pete he can call me anything.
But I'm maybe not that thick being able to retire into my early 50s and being self sufficient.
Be good once this Scottish bank is up and running and also some freight ferries starting up in Scotland to Europe I'd say things are moving in the right direction.
I think we should've had these ferries into Europe decades ago .
Post by: Buc on October 21, 2020, 01:00:35 pm
What an awful attempt at a put down🙈Hmmmm. I’ve searched back and I don’t see you having any issue with Noah (83 followers) calling Buc a “thick argument plumber” over and over again. Hmmmmm. 🤔
Doesn't bother me one bit Pete he can call me anything.
But I'm maybe not that thick being able to retire into my early 50s and being self sufficient.
Be good once this Scottish bank is up and running and also some freight ferries starting up in Scotland to Europe I'd say things are moving in the right direction.
I think we should've had these ferries into Europe decades ago .
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 12:56:29 pm
Hmmmm, jeezo 🙈 Did I say that I had an issue with what you said?What an awful attempt at a put down🙈Hmmmm. I’ve searched back and I don’t see you having any issue with Noah (83 followers) calling Buc a “thick argument plumber” over and over again. Hmmmmm. 🤔
Hmmmmm 🤔
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 12:38:56 pm
What an awful attempt at a put down🙈Hmmmm. I’ve searched back and I don’t see you having any issue with Noah (83 followers) calling Buc a “thick argument plumber” over and over again. Hmmmmm. 🤔
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 12:35:27 pm
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 12:32:09 pm
You’ve got a brain the size of a milky bar button and you don’t know if you are going for a shite or a haircut half the time!But you are incredibly thick. So how would you know if you were wrong?There is a clear precedent for it, and in terms of international law, yes you can.If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
They can’t put something in the manifesto that’s outwith their remit daft erse.
Only fückin idiots fall for that old shite.
I’m not debating the rights and wrongs with you, I’m just telling how things are likely to play out.
They can...but we all know why.
Only a fûckin idiot will vote on that basis.
Don’t judge everyone by your own low standards.
You struggle with the quote function on here.
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 12:31:16 pm
Coming from someone that would vote to make their country and people poorer 🙈But you are incredibly thick. So how would you know if you were wrong?There is a clear precedent for it, and in terms of international law, yes you can.If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
They can’t put something in the manifesto that’s outwith their remit daft erse.
Only fückin idiots fall for that old shite.
I’m not debating the rights and wrongs with you, I’m just telling how things are likely to play out.
They can...but we all know why.
Only a fûckin idiot will vote on that basis.
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 12:29:27 pm
But you are incredibly thick. So how would you know if you were wrong?There is a clear precedent for it, and in terms of international law, yes you can.If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
They can’t put something in the manifesto that’s outwith their remit daft erse.
Only fückin idiots fall for that old shite.
I’m not debating the rights and wrongs with you, I’m just telling how things are likely to play out.
They can...but we all know why.
Only a fûckin idiot will vote on that basis.
Don’t judge everyone by your own low standards.
You struggle with the quote function on here.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 12:27:39 pm
But you are incredibly thick. So how would you know if you were wrong?There is a clear precedent for it, and in terms of international law, yes you can.If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
They can’t put something in the manifesto that’s outwith their remit daft erse.
Only fückin idiots fall for that old shite.
I’m not debating the rights and wrongs with you, I’m just telling how things are likely to play out.
They can...but we all know why.
Only a fûckin idiot will vote on that basis.
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 12:26:53 pm
Anyone know what currency an iScotland would be using?Does it really matter though, we have flags, kilts and bagpipes
Been asking since 2013 but still no answer.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 12:26:27 pm
And JTC, the SNP are polling in the high 50s for Holyrood and Westminster.Polls are only a indication of how people are honking at the moment in time. Also they can be skewed by askin an question a certain way or asking a certain type of person.You held pole position on the grid in 14.
It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.
That will be 60% thinking the SNP and Greens are best in Scotland (if it happens).Not the best in the UK or saying they want a Indy ref . Of course they will attach a Indy ref to their policy, they have to.I doubt that will be why X amount will be voting for them though
Think about it. In England people have voted the Tories as the main party. Do you seriously think a lot want to vote Tory?The stark fact is a decent amount would not but faced ( pre CV) with a choice of Tories or a plan off Labour which seems extreme to a lot of their natural supporters they vote Tory because what they have they want to keep and basically are not prepared to risk their house and job on a unproven set of policies in the U.K.They have probably noticed when the said policies have been tried elsewhere they have brought a disastrous result .
You also have to consider the independence polling. A majority now consistently back independence.
If an election campaign is fought with a manifesto commitment to a referendum front and centre and then there is a landslide victory, there will be a referendum.
The numbers backing independence now mirror the level of SNP and Green support.
Unionists have got to face up to reality. Or don’t, I’m fine with that.
Post by: guest20 on October 21, 2020, 12:26:20 pm
Anyone know what currency an iScotland would be using?Or how much the border crossing to England will cost ?
Been asking since 2013 but still no answer.
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 12:25:39 pm
Anyone know what currency an iScotland would be using?🤷♂️
Been asking since 2013 but still no answer.
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 12:25:06 pm
Been asking since 2013 but still no answer.
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 12:23:38 pm
There is a clear precedent for it, and in terms of international law, yes you can.If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
They can’t put something in the manifesto that’s outwith their remit daft erse.
Only fückin idiots fall for that old shite.
I’m not debating the rights and wrongs with you, I’m just telling how things are likely to play out.
They can...but we all know why.
Only a fûckin idiot will vote on that basis.
Post by: guest20 on October 21, 2020, 12:22:47 pm
And JTC, the SNP are polling in the high 50s for Holyrood and Westminster.Polls are only a indication of how people are thinking at the moment in time. Also they can be skewed by asking a question a certain way or asking a certain type of person.You held pole position on the grid in 14.
It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.
That will be 60% thinking the SNP and Greens are best in Scotland (if it happens).Not the best in the UK or saying they want a Indy ref . Of course they will attach a Indy ref to their policy, they have to.I doubt that will be why X amount will be voting for them though
Think about it. In England people have voted the Tories as the main party. Do you seriously think a lot want to vote Tory?The stark fact is a decent amount would not but faced ( pre CV) with a choice of Tories or a plan off Labour which seems extreme to a lot of their natural supporters they vote Tory because what they have they want to keep and basically are not prepared to risk their house and job on a unproven set of policies in the U.K.They have probably noticed when the said policies have been tried elsewhere they have brought a disastrous result .
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 12:22:02 pm
No, I do not need to nowPrivate individuals. Look it up on the internet.Who is paying ?If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
**Picks up bin lid**
There's nothing in International law or the UN charter that grants a 2nd referendum if voted in a manifesto for a devolved assembly which has nothing to do with such a matter.
If there is something, then I invite you to post it up here.
Either that or you could start legal proceedings yourself. I'm sure Buc could stump up the cash!
There are legal proceedings underway. 😎
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 12:14:08 pm
There is a clear precedent for it, and in terms of international law, yes you can.If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
They can’t put something in the manifesto that’s outwith their remit daft erse.
Only fückin idiots fall for that old shite.
I’m not debating the rights and wrongs with you, I’m just telling how things are likely to play out.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 12:13:03 pm
Private individuals. Look it up on the internet.Who is paying ?If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
**Picks up bin lid**
There's nothing in International law or the UN charter that grants a 2nd referendum if voted in a manifesto for a devolved assembly which has nothing to do with such a matter.
If there is something, then I invite you to post it up here.
Either that or you could start legal proceedings yourself. I'm sure Buc could stump up the cash!
There are legal proceedings underway. 😎
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 12:10:51 pm
A tim and a sep, what do you expect. 🤷♂️If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
They can’t put something in the manifesto that’s outwith their remit daft erse.
Only fückin idiots fall for that old shite.
🇬🇧
Post by: guest17 on October 21, 2020, 12:08:09 pm
If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
They can’t put something in the manifesto that’s outwith their remit daft erse.
Only fückin idiots fall for that old shite.
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 11:54:55 am
Who is paying ?If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
**Picks up bin lid**
There's nothing in International law or the UN charter that grants a 2nd referendum if voted in a manifesto for a devolved assembly which has nothing to do with such a matter.
If there is something, then I invite you to post it up here.
Either that or you could start legal proceedings yourself. I'm sure Buc could stump up the cash!
There are legal proceedings underway. 😎
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 11:42:56 am
If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
**Picks up bin lid**
There's nothing in International law or the UN charter that grants a 2nd referendum if voted in a manifesto for a devolved assembly which has nothing to do with such a matter.
If there is something, then I invite you to post it up here.
Either that or you could start legal proceedings yourself. I'm sure Buc could stump up the cash!
There are legal proceedings underway. 😎
Post by: guest16 on October 21, 2020, 10:59:42 am
the run around here. 😂
Good work brothers 🇬🇧
WATP 🇬🇧
Post by: guest19 on October 21, 2020, 10:49:45 am
And JTC, the SNP are polling in the high 50s for Holyrood and Westminster.
It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.
Only according to spoofing opinion polls, which always estimate Nhationalism as higher than it actually is. As well as that, the campaign hasn't even started.
In Ruth and Douglas we trust!
Post by: guest19 on October 21, 2020, 10:46:33 am
If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
**Picks up bin lid**
There's nothing in International law or the UN charter that grants a 2nd referendum if voted in a manifesto for a devolved assembly which has nothing to do with such a matter.
If there is something, then I invite you to post it up here.
Either that or you could start legal proceedings yourself. I'm sure Buc could stump up the cash!
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 10:39:39 am
If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.It got smashed good and proper six short years ago.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
That’s true, but now it’s back. You need to deal with it.
I’m not arguing the rights and wrongs here of that. I’m just telling you what the political landscape is.
Post by: guest3 on October 21, 2020, 10:36:55 am
If it’s in the manifesto, and people vote for it, then by international law and the UN charter, a referendum must follow.It got smashed good and proper six short years ago.
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 10:35:12 am
It’s likely that the SNP and Greens combined will take more than 60% of the vote at Holyrood next May.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 21, 2020, 10:33:00 am
The alternative is constitutional crisis and political Armageddon for the unionist cause.
Just have the guts to fight a referendum if the electorate in Scotland votes for one. It’s your only chance.
Anyone would think the unionists are running scared. It should be an opportunity for them to smash independence good and proper, but they don’t seem keen. 🤔
Post by: guest20 on October 21, 2020, 09:31:14 am
Im led to believe from the midlands of England that the combined total of SNP votes in Scottish and General Elections does not exceed 45%.Please correct me if Im wrong.That was the figure the indys hit in the 'once in a generation' ref in 2014.I know kids are knocking babies out at alarming rates these days but 6 years aint a generation!
Sturgon would have a heart attack if she had to run Scotland as a indy nation.Take the EU away and it would be curtains.She bangs on and on about has She has to be seen to the masses to be battling for a indy.Do you think she seriously wants it?Im not too sure.I think she wants debate but if it were to happen she will be gone.The caliber of politiction is poorer these days compared to previous years.The SNP are dire in this respect.Hamas Useless!Dear oh dear.
Like I said in a previous post a federal Scotland is more likely.If you think You can go it alone then a Federal Scotland will be no worries .Spend what you generate.It would actually be a good practice place for a Indy Scotland.Personally I wouldnt be confident it would be a success without WM money but we'd see once and for all whether Scotland could be self suffienct away from the Union.Then people can see the truth.
Im for the Union .It may not be perfect but it works.Nothing to stop us working on it.I do worry for Scotland as a lot of SNP types seem to be of the 'entitled' type.Filling the country will Eastern Europeons to do the work some of these dont fancy is not a recipe for success.I remember being up Craig Tara in 07 and being shocked at the number of EEs working there
Post by: guest19 on October 21, 2020, 08:50:28 am
A truly outstanding swording. I'm sitting here in awe.List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015 They didn't win the election, they just gained more seats in the FPTP system which isn't a mandate.
SNP election win 2016 This isn't a mandate. It just meant that the SNP had the most seats out of all the parties in an assembly used for devolved matters, which don't include independence referendums. Most voters voted for Unionists parties anyway, which is a more accurate reflection on the sovereignty of the Scottish people as stated in the Claim of Right.
SNP election win 2017 They didn't win the election and they actually lost seats. Absolutely not a mandate.
SNP election win 2019 Again, they didn't win the election. Not a mandate.
SNP election win 2021 to come Has Fremsley hacked your account? Big assumption there, and even if the SNP do win this devolved assembly election **shivvers**, it isn't a mandate. It just shows that the SNP have been elected to run Scotland in terms of matters that are devolved, which don't include independence referendums, especially ones that go against the Edinburgh agreement and have been campaigned for despite promises to the contrary.
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood Irrelevant. Independence referendums are not a devolved matter.
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster. Irrelevant, especially when most Scots voted for Unionist parties.
The Claim of Right. The original 1689 Claim of Right, willingly signed by the moderniser good King Billy (had a ten foot willy), was to transfer power from the monarch to parliament, nothing about frequent secession referendums every few years. The more recent Claim of Right was about the importance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. The most accurate barometer of Scottish opinion in this regard was the Independence referendum in 2014 where a No beat Yes by 11% on a massive turnout. Since then, the last Holyrood election even had most Scots voting Unionist. The Claim of Right actually backs up the stance of not having another Independence Referendum. If we were to ignore Scottish opinion and grant another referendum, it would be denying Scots their sovereignty and going against the Claim of Right.
International law There is nothing in International Law that could be seen as a mandate.
The UN Charter There is nothing in the UN charter that could be seen as a mandate.
Scottish public opinion Recent spoofing opinion polls can not even be seen as a fair reflection of Scottish public opinion for several reasons, never mind a mandate.
I could go on. Be my guest!
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory. Fremsley, please give Peter his username back.
Many thanks Brother AJ.
**Bows**
I feel on this issue Comrade Hardliner you have fought manfully, waving around a bin lid so that my penetrating thrusts yielded merely superficial wounds as opposed to truly devastating strikes.
We both live to fight another day for the soul of the nation.
😀
;D
We do indeed!
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 10:31:23 pm
A truly outstanding swording. I'm sitting here in awe.List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015 They didn't win the election, they just gained more seats in the FPTP system which isn't a mandate.
SNP election win 2016 This isn't a mandate. It just meant that the SNP had the most seats out of all the parties in an assembly used for devolved matters, which don't include independence referendums. Most voters voted for Unionists parties anyway, which is a more accurate reflection on the sovereignty of the Scottish people as stated in the Claim of Right.
SNP election win 2017 They didn't win the election and they actually lost seats. Absolutely not a mandate.
SNP election win 2019 Again, they didn't win the election. Not a mandate.
SNP election win 2021 to come Has Fremsley hacked your account? Big assumption there, and even if the SNP do win this devolved assembly election **shivvers**, it isn't a mandate. It just shows that the SNP have been elected to run Scotland in terms of matters that are devolved, which don't include independence referendums, especially ones that go against the Edinburgh agreement and have been campaigned for despite promises to the contrary.
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood Irrelevant. Independence referendums are not a devolved matter.
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster. Irrelevant, especially when most Scots voted for Unionist parties.
The Claim of Right. The original 1689 Claim of Right, willingly signed by the moderniser good King Billy (had a ten foot willy), was to transfer power from the monarch to parliament, nothing about frequent secession referendums every few years. The more recent Claim of Right was about the importance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. The most accurate barometer of Scottish opinion in this regard was the Independence referendum in 2014 where a No beat Yes by 11% on a massive turnout. Since then, the last Holyrood election even had most Scots voting Unionist. The Claim of Right actually backs up the stance of not having another Independence Referendum. If we were to ignore Scottish opinion and grant another referendum, it would be denying Scots their sovereignty and going against the Claim of Right.
International law There is nothing in International Law that could be seen as a mandate.
The UN Charter There is nothing in the UN charter that could be seen as a mandate.
Scottish public opinion Recent spoofing opinion polls can not even be seen as a fair reflection of Scottish public opinion for several reasons, never mind a mandate.
I could go on. Be my guest!
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory. Fremsley, please give Peter his username back.
Many thanks Brother AJ.
**Bows**
I feel on this issue Comrade Hardliner you have fought manfully, waving around a bin lid so that my penetrating thrusts yielded merely superficial wounds as opposed to truly devastating strikes.
We both live to fight another day for the soul of the nation.
😀
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 10:27:51 pm
Post by: guest19 on October 20, 2020, 10:21:03 pm
A truly outstanding swording. I'm sitting here in awe.List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015 They didn't win the election, they just gained more seats in the FPTP system which isn't a mandate.
SNP election win 2016 This isn't a mandate. It just meant that the SNP had the most seats out of all the parties in an assembly used for devolved matters, which don't include independence referendums. Most voters voted for Unionists parties anyway, which is a more accurate reflection on the sovereignty of the Scottish people as stated in the Claim of Right.
SNP election win 2017 They didn't win the election and they actually lost seats. Absolutely not a mandate.
SNP election win 2019 Again, they didn't win the election. Not a mandate.
SNP election win 2021 to come Has Fremsley hacked your account? Big assumption there, and even if the SNP do win this devolved assembly election **shivvers**, it isn't a mandate. It just shows that the SNP have been elected to run Scotland in terms of matters that are devolved, which don't include independence referendums, especially ones that go against the Edinburgh agreement and have been campaigned for despite promises to the contrary.
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood Irrelevant. Independence referendums are not a devolved matter.
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster. Irrelevant, especially when most Scots voted for Unionist parties.
The Claim of Right. The original 1689 Claim of Right, willingly signed by the moderniser good King Billy (had a ten foot willy), was to transfer power from the monarch to parliament, nothing about frequent secession referendums every few years. The more recent Claim of Right was about the importance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. The most accurate barometer of Scottish opinion in this regard was the Independence referendum in 2014 where a No beat Yes by 11% on a massive turnout. Since then, the last Holyrood election even had most Scots voting Unionist. The Claim of Right actually backs up the stance of not having another Independence Referendum. If we were to ignore Scottish opinion and grant another referendum, it would be denying Scots their sovereignty and going against the Claim of Right.
International law There is nothing in International Law that could be seen as a mandate.
The UN Charter There is nothing in the UN charter that could be seen as a mandate.
Scottish public opinion Recent spoofing opinion polls can not even be seen as a fair reflection of Scottish public opinion for several reasons, never mind a mandate.
I could go on. Be my guest!
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory. Fremsley, please give Peter his username back.
Many thanks Brother AJ.
**Bows**
Post by: guest19 on October 20, 2020, 10:19:27 pm
A whopping win in May will be an undeniable mandate. That’s what Whitehall certainly thinks.If it’s in your manifesto and you win the election then it’s a mandate. 2021 will be an unarguable mandate with a popular majority and a two thirds majority of seats.List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015 They didn't win the election, they just gained more seats in the FPTP system which isn't a mandate.
SNP election win 2016 This isn't a mandate. It just meant that the SNP had the most seats out of all the parties in an assembly used for devolved matters, which don't include independence referendums. Most voters voted for Unionists parties anyway, which is a more accurate reflection on the sovereignty of the Scottish people as stated in the Claim of Right.
SNP election win 2017 They didn't win the election and they actually lost seats. Absolutely not a mandate.
SNP election win 2019 Again, they didn't win the election. Not a mandate.
SNP election win 2021 to come Has Fremsley hacked your account? Big assumption there, and even if the SNP do win this devolved assembly election **shivvers**, it isn't a mandate. It just shows that the SNP have been elected to run Scotland in terms of matters that are devolved, which don't include independence referendums, especially ones that go against the Edinburgh agreement and have been campaigned for despite promises to the contrary.
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood Irrelevant. Independence referendums are not a devolved matter.
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster. Irrelevant, especially when most Scots voted for Unionist parties.
The Claim of Right. The original 1689 Claim of Right, willingly signed by the moderniser good King Billy (had a ten foot willy), was to transfer power from the monarch to parliament, nothing about frequent secession referendums every few years. The more recent Claim of Right was about the importance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. The most accurate barometer of Scottish opinion in this regard was the Independence referendum in 2014 where a No beat Yes by 11% on a massive turnout. Since then, the last Holyrood election even had most Scots voting Unionist. The Claim of Right actually backs up the stance of not having another Independence Referendum. If we were to ignore Scottish opinion and grant another referendum, it would be denying Scots their sovereignty and going against the Claim of Right.
International law There is nothing in International Law that could be seen as a mandate.
The UN Charter There is nothing in the UN charter that could be seen as a mandate.
Scottish public opinion Recent spoofing opinion polls can not even be seen as a fair reflection of Scottish public opinion for several reasons, never mind a mandate.
I could go on. Be my guest!
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory. Fremsley, please give Peter his username back.
Underpinning is international law and the UN Charter.
The UK is out of wiggle room. And out of time.
I could win an election to become part of my Scottish town's community council, standing on a manifesto of building a high speed railway from my house to the Auchrannie, but it still wouldn't give me a mandate to do so.
All the SNP could promise is that they'll ask the government to grant another one, as it's simply not a devolved matter. Who can believe the SNP's promises now anyway? They have no intention of keeping the 'Once in a Generation' one.
There is nothing in the UN charter or International Law that is a mandate for another referendum.
International law and the UN charter is clear on the matter of self determination through democratic means.
The politics are that a people cannot be denied.
Whitehall is preparing for a referendum, and preparing to lose.
You're right with regards to the UN charter and International law, but that still doesn't equate to a mandate given the current context.
There is no evidence that a people are being denied. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary.
Agent Sturgeon will ensure it doesn't happen.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 10:16:00 pm
A whopping win in May will be an undeniable mandate. That’s what Whitehall certainly thinks.If it’s in your manifesto and you win the election then it’s a mandate. 2021 will be an unarguable mandate with a popular majority and a two thirds majority of seats.List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015 They didn't win the election, they just gained more seats in the FPTP system which isn't a mandate.
SNP election win 2016 This isn't a mandate. It just meant that the SNP had the most seats out of all the parties in an assembly used for devolved matters, which don't include independence referendums. Most voters voted for Unionists parties anyway, which is a more accurate reflection on the sovereignty of the Scottish people as stated in the Claim of Right.
SNP election win 2017 They didn't win the election and they actually lost seats. Absolutely not a mandate.
SNP election win 2019 Again, they didn't win the election. Not a mandate.
SNP election win 2021 to come Has Fremsley hacked your account? Big assumption there, and even if the SNP do win this devolved assembly election **shivvers**, it isn't a mandate. It just shows that the SNP have been elected to run Scotland in terms of matters that are devolved, which don't include independence referendums, especially ones that go against the Edinburgh agreement and have been campaigned for despite promises to the contrary.
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood Irrelevant. Independence referendums are not a devolved matter.
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster. Irrelevant, especially when most Scots voted for Unionist parties.
The Claim of Right. The original 1689 Claim of Right, willingly signed by the moderniser good King Billy (had a ten foot willy), was to transfer power from the monarch to parliament, nothing about frequent secession referendums every few years. The more recent Claim of Right was about the importance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. The most accurate barometer of Scottish opinion in this regard was the Independence referendum in 2014 where a No beat Yes by 11% on a massive turnout. Since then, the last Holyrood election even had most Scots voting Unionist. The Claim of Right actually backs up the stance of not having another Independence Referendum. If we were to ignore Scottish opinion and grant another referendum, it would be denying Scots their sovereignty and going against the Claim of Right.
International law There is nothing in International Law that could be seen as a mandate.
The UN Charter There is nothing in the UN charter that could be seen as a mandate.
Scottish public opinion Recent spoofing opinion polls can not even be seen as a fair reflection of Scottish public opinion for several reasons, never mind a mandate.
I could go on. Be my guest!
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory. Fremsley, please give Peter his username back.
Underpinning is international law and the UN Charter.
The UK is out of wiggle room. And out of time.
I could win an election to become part of my Scottish town's community council, standing on a manifesto of building a high speed railway from my house to the Auchrannie, but it still wouldn't give me a mandate to do so.
All the SNP could promise is that they'll ask the government to grant another one, as it's simply not a devolved matter. Who can believe the SNP's promises now anyway? They have no intention of keeping the 'Once in a Generation' one.
There is nothing in the UN charter or International Law that is a mandate for another referendum.
International law and the UN charter is clear on the matter of self determination through democratic means.
The politics are that a people cannot be denied.
Whitehall is preparing for a referendum, and preparing to lose.
You're right with regards to the UN charter and International law, but that still doesn't equate to a mandate given the current context.
There is no evidence that a people are being denied. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary.
Post by: guest3 on October 20, 2020, 10:12:06 pm
A truly outstanding swording. I'm sitting here in awe.List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015 They didn't win the election, they just gained more seats in the FPTP system which isn't a mandate.
SNP election win 2016 This isn't a mandate. It just meant that the SNP had the most seats out of all the parties in an assembly used for devolved matters, which don't include independence referendums. Most voters voted for Unionists parties anyway, which is a more accurate reflection on the sovereignty of the Scottish people as stated in the Claim of Right.
SNP election win 2017 They didn't win the election and they actually lost seats. Absolutely not a mandate.
SNP election win 2019 Again, they didn't win the election. Not a mandate.
SNP election win 2021 to come Has Fremsley hacked your account? Big assumption there, and even if the SNP do win this devolved assembly election **shivvers**, it isn't a mandate. It just shows that the SNP have been elected to run Scotland in terms of matters that are devolved, which don't include independence referendums, especially ones that go against the Edinburgh agreement and have been campaigned for despite promises to the contrary.
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood Irrelevant. Independence referendums are not a devolved matter.
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster. Irrelevant, especially when most Scots voted for Unionist parties.
The Claim of Right. The original 1689 Claim of Right, willingly signed by the moderniser good King Billy (had a ten foot willy), was to transfer power from the monarch to parliament, nothing about frequent secession referendums every few years. The more recent Claim of Right was about the importance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. The most accurate barometer of Scottish opinion in this regard was the Independence referendum in 2014 where a No beat Yes by 11% on a massive turnout. Since then, the last Holyrood election even had most Scots voting Unionist. The Claim of Right actually backs up the stance of not having another Independence Referendum. If we were to ignore Scottish opinion and grant another referendum, it would be denying Scots their sovereignty and going against the Claim of Right.
International law There is nothing in International Law that could be seen as a mandate.
The UN Charter There is nothing in the UN charter that could be seen as a mandate.
Scottish public opinion Recent spoofing opinion polls can not even be seen as a fair reflection of Scottish public opinion for several reasons, never mind a mandate.
I could go on. Be my guest!
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory. Fremsley, please give Peter his username back.
Post by: guest19 on October 20, 2020, 10:03:10 pm
If it’s in your manifesto and you win the election then it’s a mandate. 2021 will be an unarguable mandate with a popular majority and a two thirds majority of seats.List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015 They didn't win the election, they just gained more seats in the FPTP system which isn't a mandate.
SNP election win 2016 This isn't a mandate. It just meant that the SNP had the most seats out of all the parties in an assembly used for devolved matters, which don't include independence referendums. Most voters voted for Unionists parties anyway, which is a more accurate reflection on the sovereignty of the Scottish people as stated in the Claim of Right.
SNP election win 2017 They didn't win the election and they actually lost seats. Absolutely not a mandate.
SNP election win 2019 Again, they didn't win the election. Not a mandate.
SNP election win 2021 to come Has Fremsley hacked your account? Big assumption there, and even if the SNP do win this devolved assembly election **shivvers**, it isn't a mandate. It just shows that the SNP have been elected to run Scotland in terms of matters that are devolved, which don't include independence referendums, especially ones that go against the Edinburgh agreement and have been campaigned for despite promises to the contrary.
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood Irrelevant. Independence referendums are not a devolved matter.
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster. Irrelevant, especially when most Scots voted for Unionist parties.
The Claim of Right. The original 1689 Claim of Right, willingly signed by the moderniser good King Billy (had a ten foot willy), was to transfer power from the monarch to parliament, nothing about frequent secession referendums every few years. The more recent Claim of Right was about the importance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. The most accurate barometer of Scottish opinion in this regard was the Independence referendum in 2014 where a No beat Yes by 11% on a massive turnout. Since then, the last Holyrood election even had most Scots voting Unionist. The Claim of Right actually backs up the stance of not having another Independence Referendum. If we were to ignore Scottish opinion and grant another referendum, it would be denying Scots their sovereignty and going against the Claim of Right.
International law There is nothing in International Law that could be seen as a mandate.
The UN Charter There is nothing in the UN charter that could be seen as a mandate.
Scottish public opinion Recent spoofing opinion polls can not even be seen as a fair reflection of Scottish public opinion for several reasons, never mind a mandate.
I could go on. Be my guest!
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory. Fremsley, please give Peter his username back.
Underpinning is international law and the UN Charter.
The UK is out of wiggle room. And out of time.
I could win an election to become part of my Scottish town's community council, standing on a manifesto of building a high speed railway from my house to the Auchrannie, but it still wouldn't give me a mandate to do so.
All the SNP could promise is that they'll ask the government to grant another one, as it's simply not a devolved matter. Who can believe the SNP's promises now anyway? They have no intention of keeping the 'Once in a Generation' one.
There is nothing in the UN charter or International Law that is a mandate for another referendum.
International law and the UN charter is clear on the matter of self determination through democratic means.
The politics are that a people cannot be denied.
Whitehall is preparing for a referendum, and preparing to lose.
You're right with regards to the UN charter and International law, but that still doesn't equate to a mandate given the current context.
There is no evidence that a people are being denied. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary.
Post by: guest17 on October 20, 2020, 10:01:53 pm
If it’s in your manifesto and you win the election then it’s a mandate. 2021 will be an unarguable mandate with a popular majority and a two thirds majority of seats.List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015 They didn't win the election, they just gained more seats in the FPTP system which isn't a mandate.
SNP election win 2016 This isn't a mandate. It just meant that the SNP had the most seats out of all the parties in an assembly used for devolved matters, which don't include independence referendums. Most voters voted for Unionists parties anyway, which is a more accurate reflection on the sovereignty of the Scottish people as stated in the Claim of Right.
SNP election win 2017 They didn't win the election and they actually lost seats. Absolutely not a mandate.
SNP election win 2019 Again, they didn't win the election. Not a mandate.
SNP election win 2021 to come Has Fremsley hacked your account? Big assumption there, and even if the SNP do win this devolved assembly election **shivvers**, it isn't a mandate. It just shows that the SNP have been elected to run Scotland in terms of matters that are devolved, which don't include independence referendums, especially ones that go against the Edinburgh agreement and have been campaigned for despite promises to the contrary.
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood Irrelevant. Independence referendums are not a devolved matter.
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster. Irrelevant, especially when most Scots voted for Unionist parties.
The Claim of Right. The original 1689 Claim of Right, willingly signed by the moderniser good King Billy (had a ten foot willy), was to transfer power from the monarch to parliament, nothing about frequent secession referendums every few years. The more recent Claim of Right was about the importance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. The most accurate barometer of Scottish opinion in this regard was the Independence referendum in 2014 where a No beat Yes by 11% on a massive turnout. Since then, the last Holyrood election even had most Scots voting Unionist. The Claim of Right actually backs up the stance of not having another Independence Referendum. If we were to ignore Scottish opinion and grant another referendum, it would be denying Scots their sovereignty and going against the Claim of Right.
International law There is nothing in International Law that could be seen as a mandate.
The UN Charter There is nothing in the UN charter that could be seen as a mandate.
Scottish public opinion Recent spoofing opinion polls can not even be seen as a fair reflection of Scottish public opinion for several reasons, never mind a mandate.
I could go on. Be my guest!
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory. Fremsley, please give Peter his username back.
Underpinning is international law and the UN Charter.
The UK is out of wiggle room. And out of time.
I could win an election to become part of my Scottish town's community council, standing on a manifesto of building a high speed railway from my house to the Auchrannie, but it still wouldn't give me a mandate to do so.
All the SNP could promise is that they'll ask the government to grant another one, as it's simply not a devolved matter. Who can believe the SNP's promises now anyway? They have no intention of keeping the 'Once in a Generation' one.
There is nothing in the UN charter or International Law that is a mandate for another referendum.
But Peter, like most seps, will just scweam and scweam and scweam.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 09:59:02 pm
If it’s in your manifesto and you win the election then it’s a mandate. 2021 will be an unarguable mandate with a popular majority and a two thirds majority of seats.List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015 They didn't win the election, they just gained more seats in the FPTP system which isn't a mandate.
SNP election win 2016 This isn't a mandate. It just meant that the SNP had the most seats out of all the parties in an assembly used for devolved matters, which don't include independence referendums. Most voters voted for Unionists parties anyway, which is a more accurate reflection on the sovereignty of the Scottish people as stated in the Claim of Right.
SNP election win 2017 They didn't win the election and they actually lost seats. Absolutely not a mandate.
SNP election win 2019 Again, they didn't win the election. Not a mandate.
SNP election win 2021 to come Has Fremsley hacked your account? Big assumption there, and even if the SNP do win this devolved assembly election **shivvers**, it isn't a mandate. It just shows that the SNP have been elected to run Scotland in terms of matters that are devolved, which don't include independence referendums, especially ones that go against the Edinburgh agreement and have been campaigned for despite promises to the contrary.
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood Irrelevant. Independence referendums are not a devolved matter.
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster. Irrelevant, especially when most Scots voted for Unionist parties.
The Claim of Right. The original 1689 Claim of Right, willingly signed by the moderniser good King Billy (had a ten foot willy), was to transfer power from the monarch to parliament, nothing about frequent secession referendums every few years. The more recent Claim of Right was about the importance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. The most accurate barometer of Scottish opinion in this regard was the Independence referendum in 2014 where a No beat Yes by 11% on a massive turnout. Since then, the last Holyrood election even had most Scots voting Unionist. The Claim of Right actually backs up the stance of not having another Independence Referendum. If we were to ignore Scottish opinion and grant another referendum, it would be denying Scots their sovereignty and going against the Claim of Right.
International law There is nothing in International Law that could be seen as a mandate.
The UN Charter There is nothing in the UN charter that could be seen as a mandate.
Scottish public opinion Recent spoofing opinion polls can not even be seen as a fair reflection of Scottish public opinion for several reasons, never mind a mandate.
I could go on. Be my guest!
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory. Fremsley, please give Peter his username back.
Underpinning is international law and the UN Charter.
The UK is out of wiggle room. And out of time.
I could win an election to become part of my Scottish town's community council, standing on a manifesto of building a high speed railway from my house to the Auchrannie, but it still wouldn't give me a mandate to do so.
All the SNP could promise is that they'll ask the government to grant another one, as it's simply not a devolved matter. Who can believe the SNP's promises now anyway? They have no intention of keeping the 'Once in a Generation' one.
There is nothing in the UN charter or International Law that is a mandate for another referendum.
International law and the UN charter is clear on the matter of self determination through democratic means.
The politics are that a people cannot be denied.
Whitehall is preparing for a referendum, and preparing to lose.
Post by: guest19 on October 20, 2020, 09:48:02 pm
If it’s in your manifesto and you win the election then it’s a mandate. 2021 will be an unarguable mandate with a popular majority and a two thirds majority of seats.List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015 They didn't win the election, they just gained more seats in the FPTP system which isn't a mandate.
SNP election win 2016 This isn't a mandate. It just meant that the SNP had the most seats out of all the parties in an assembly used for devolved matters, which don't include independence referendums. Most voters voted for Unionists parties anyway, which is a more accurate reflection on the sovereignty of the Scottish people as stated in the Claim of Right.
SNP election win 2017 They didn't win the election and they actually lost seats. Absolutely not a mandate.
SNP election win 2019 Again, they didn't win the election. Not a mandate.
SNP election win 2021 to come Has Fremsley hacked your account? Big assumption there, and even if the SNP do win this devolved assembly election **shivvers**, it isn't a mandate. It just shows that the SNP have been elected to run Scotland in terms of matters that are devolved, which don't include independence referendums, especially ones that go against the Edinburgh agreement and have been campaigned for despite promises to the contrary.
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood Irrelevant. Independence referendums are not a devolved matter.
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster. Irrelevant, especially when most Scots voted for Unionist parties.
The Claim of Right. The original 1689 Claim of Right, willingly signed by the moderniser good King Billy (had a ten foot willy), was to transfer power from the monarch to parliament, nothing about frequent secession referendums every few years. The more recent Claim of Right was about the importance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. The most accurate barometer of Scottish opinion in this regard was the Independence referendum in 2014 where a No beat Yes by 11% on a massive turnout. Since then, the last Holyrood election even had most Scots voting Unionist. The Claim of Right actually backs up the stance of not having another Independence Referendum. If we were to ignore Scottish opinion and grant another referendum, it would be denying Scots their sovereignty and going against the Claim of Right.
International law There is nothing in International Law that could be seen as a mandate.
The UN Charter There is nothing in the UN charter that could be seen as a mandate.
Scottish public opinion Recent spoofing opinion polls can not even be seen as a fair reflection of Scottish public opinion for several reasons, never mind a mandate.
I could go on. Be my guest!
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory. Fremsley, please give Peter his username back.
Underpinning is international law and the UN Charter.
The UK is out of wiggle room. And out of time.
I could win an election to become part of my Scottish town's community council, standing on a manifesto of building a high speed railway from my house to the Auchrannie, but it still wouldn't give me a mandate to do so.
All the SNP could promise is that they'll ask the government to grant another one, as it's simply not a devolved matter. Who can believe the SNP's promises now anyway? They have no intention of keeping the 'Once in a Generation' one.
There is nothing in the UN charter or International Law that is a mandate for another referendum.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 09:35:24 pm
If it’s in your manifesto and you win the election then it’s a mandate. 2021 will be an unarguable mandate with a popular majority and a two thirds majority of seats.List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015 They didn't win the election, they just gained more seats in the FPTP system which isn't a mandate.
SNP election win 2016 This isn't a mandate. It just meant that the SNP had the most seats out of all the parties in an assembly used for devolved matters, which don't include independence referendums. Most voters voted for Unionists parties anyway, which is a more accurate reflection on the sovereignty of the Scottish people as stated in the Claim of Right.
SNP election win 2017 They didn't win the election and they actually lost seats. Absolutely not a mandate.
SNP election win 2019 Again, they didn't win the election. Not a mandate.
SNP election win 2021 to come Has Fremsley hacked your account? Big assumption there, and even if the SNP do win this devolved assembly election **shivvers**, it isn't a mandate. It just shows that the SNP have been elected to run Scotland in terms of matters that are devolved, which don't include independence referendums, especially ones that go against the Edinburgh agreement and have been campaigned for despite promises to the contrary.
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood Irrelevant. Independence referendums are not a devolved matter.
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster. Irrelevant, especially when most Scots voted for Unionist parties.
The Claim of Right. The original 1689 Claim of Right, willingly signed by the moderniser good King Billy (had a ten foot willy), was to transfer power from the monarch to parliament, nothing about frequent secession referendums every few years. The more recent Claim of Right was about the importance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. The most accurate barometer of Scottish opinion in this regard was the Independence referendum in 2014 where a No beat Yes by 11% on a massive turnout. Since then, the last Holyrood election even had most Scots voting Unionist. The Claim of Right actually backs up the stance of not having another Independence Referendum. If we were to ignore Scottish opinion and grant another referendum, it would be denying Scots their sovereignty and going against the Claim of Right.
International law There is nothing in International Law that could be seen as a mandate.
The UN Charter There is nothing in the UN charter that could be seen as a mandate.
Scottish public opinion Recent spoofing opinion polls can not even be seen as a fair reflection of Scottish public opinion for several reasons, never mind a mandate.
I could go on. Be my guest!
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory. Fremsley, please give Peter his username back.
Underpinning is international law and the UN Charter.
The UK is out of wiggle room. And out of time.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 09:33:10 pm
Typos. That’s where the unionists are at now. 😎You can't even get the year right ffs.List of mandates for a 2nd referendumPeter, you had a vote on your terms and lost.
SNP election win 2015
SNP election win 2016
SNP election win 2017
SNP election win 2019
SNP election win 2021 to come
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster
The Claim of Right
International law
The UN Charter
Scottish public opinion
I could go on.
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory.
Even trusting 16 year olds to vote when your leaders won’t allow them to buy a packet of cigarettes.Some of the younger , more idealistic voters will be going for a mortgage soon . Easy to vote for something when you have no responsibility. Get a bit of debt around you and the picture changes.
You will see a federal Scotland before you see Indy.
I have circa £300k of debt.
We lost in 2015. The unionists won. And they got another 10 years out of the union.
It’s nobody’s fault but their own that they have placed it in peril once again. Had they behaved it would not be happening.
The people though now in their majority want independence and will take it through democratic means. Cest la vie.
Post by: guest19 on October 20, 2020, 09:22:42 pm
If Independence happens.
Where will the opposition on here move to?
With a bit of luck, the moon.
(https://lgba.co.uk/files/2020/05/Union-Jack-on-the-Moon.jpg)
Post by: guest19 on October 20, 2020, 09:08:18 pm
List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015 They didn't win the election, they just gained more seats in the FPTP system which isn't a mandate.
SNP election win 2016 This isn't a mandate. It just meant that the SNP had the most seats out of all the parties in an assembly used for devolved matters, which don't include independence referendums. Most voters voted for Unionists parties anyway, which is a more accurate reflection on the sovereignty of the Scottish people as stated in the Claim of Right.
SNP election win 2017 They didn't win the election and they actually lost seats. Absolutely not a mandate.
SNP election win 2019 Again, they didn't win the election. Not a mandate.
SNP election win 2021 to come Has Fremsley hacked your account? Big assumption there, and even if the SNP do win this devolved assembly election **shivvers**, it isn't a mandate. It just shows that the SNP have been elected to run Scotland in terms of matters that are devolved, which don't include independence referendums, especially ones that go against the Edinburgh agreement and have been campaigned for despite promises to the contrary.
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood Irrelevant. Independence referendums are not a devolved matter.
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster. Irrelevant, especially when most Scots voted for Unionist parties.
The Claim of Right. The original 1689 Claim of Right, willingly signed by the moderniser good King Billy (had a ten foot willy), was to transfer power from the monarch to parliament, nothing about frequent secession referendums every few years. The more recent Claim of Right was about the importance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. The most accurate barometer of Scottish opinion in this regard was the Independence referendum in 2014 where a No beat Yes by 11% on a massive turnout. Since then, the last Holyrood election even had most Scots voting Unionist. The Claim of Right actually backs up the stance of not having another Independence Referendum. If we were to ignore Scottish opinion and grant another referendum, it would be denying Scots their sovereignty and going against the Claim of Right.
International law There is nothing in International Law that could be seen as a mandate.
The UN Charter There is nothing in the UN charter that could be seen as a mandate.
Scottish public opinion Recent spoofing opinion polls can not even be seen as a fair reflection of Scottish public opinion for several reasons, never mind a mandate.
I could go on. Be my guest!
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory. Fremsley, please give Peter his username back.
Post by: Sir Brenty on October 20, 2020, 08:53:21 pm
Where will the opposition on here move to?
With a bit of luck, the moon.
Post by: guest3 on October 20, 2020, 08:47:09 pm
You can't even get the year right ffs.List of mandates for a 2nd referendumPeter, you had a vote on your terms and lost.
SNP election win 2015
SNP election win 2016
SNP election win 2017
SNP election win 2019
SNP election win 2021 to come
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster
The Claim of Right
International law
The UN Charter
Scottish public opinion
I could go on.
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory.
Even trusting 16 year olds to vote when your leaders won’t allow them to buy a packet of cigarettes.Some of the younger , more idealistic voters will be going for a mortgage soon . Easy to vote for something when you have no responsibility. Get a bit of debt around you and the picture changes.
You will see a federal Scotland before you see Indy.
I have circa £300k of debt.
We lost in 2015. The unionists won. And they got another 10 years out of the union.
It’s nobody’s fault but their own that they have placed it in peril once again. Had they behaved it would not be happening.
The people though now in their majority want independence and will take it through democratic means. Cest la vie.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 08:34:34 pm
List of mandates for a 2nd referendumPeter, you had a vote on your terms and lost.
SNP election win 2015
SNP election win 2016
SNP election win 2017
SNP election win 2019
SNP election win 2021 to come
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster
The Claim of Right
International law
The UN Charter
Scottish public opinion
I could go on.
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory.
Even trusting 16 year olds to vote when your leaders won’t allow them to buy a packet of cigarettes.Some of the younger , more idealistic voters will be going for a mortgage soon . Easy to vote for something when you have no responsibility. Get a bit of debt around you and the picture changes.
You will see a federal Scotland before you see Indy.
I have circa £300k of debt.
We lost in 2015. The unionists won. And they got another 10 years out of the union.
It’s nobody’s fault but their own that they have placed it in peril once again. Had they behaved it would not be happening.
The people though now in their majority want independence and will take it through democratic means. Cest la vie.
Post by: guest20 on October 20, 2020, 07:48:43 pm
List of mandates for a 2nd referendumPeter, you had a vote on your terms and lost.
SNP election win 2015
SNP election win 2016
SNP election win 2017
SNP election win 2019
SNP election win 2021 to come
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster
The Claim of Right
International law
The UN Charter
Scottish public opinion
I could go on.
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory.
Even trusting 16 year olds to vote when your leaders won’t allow them to buy a packet of cigarettes.Some of the younger , more idealistic voters will be going for a mortgage soon . Easy to vote for something when you have no responsibility. Get a bit of debt around you and the picture changes.
You will see a federal Scotland before you see Indy.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 07:08:02 pm
Undecideds tend to be the ones who won’t vote. These are very bad numbers for the Yoons.
The very idea that they think they can cling to their preferred constitution settlement against the wishes of the majority is both highly amusing and a damning indictment on the character of unionism.
Post by: guest17 on October 20, 2020, 06:41:00 pm
Honestly guys, if I was a Yoon I would be pretty concerned.
Why would they be concerned?
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 06:40:15 pm
Post by: guest17 on October 20, 2020, 06:39:10 pm
Everything you say is pie in the sky, straw clutching, Pete. It aint happening.
We all know that.
Post by: guest17 on October 20, 2020, 06:38:28 pm
List of mandates for a 2nd referendum
SNP election win 2015
SNP election win 2016
SNP election win 2017
SNP election win 2019
SNP election win 2021 to come
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster
The Claim of Right
International law
The UN Charter
Scottish public opinion
I could go on.
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory.
You’re going to have to flesh out those ‘election wins’.
Westminster representation is for a Uk vote.
Public opinion 😂
Post by: guest3 on October 20, 2020, 06:16:47 pm
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 05:58:17 pm
Won’t matter.Well now the people are back. You should have kept your promises.It’s not a union if you can’t leave via democratic mandate.
Democracy will dictate the outcome. Scotland is likely to become independent. And unionists know it.
They will be welcome to put forward a reunification party for election to the independent Scottish Parliament. They can have a return to the UK in their manifesto and if they ever gain power they can have their own referendum.
Maybe then finally they will understand the power of democracy.
We voted No Thanks.
A democratic mandate.
Boris said No.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 05:57:56 pm
And so should Wee Nippy "once in a generation"👍Well now the people are back. You should have kept your promises.It’s not a union if you can’t leave via democratic mandate.
Democracy will dictate the outcome. Scotland is likely to become independent. And unionists know it.
They will be welcome to put forward a reunification party for election to the independent Scottish Parliament. They can have a return to the UK in their manifesto and if they ever gain power they can have their own referendum.
Maybe then finally they will understand the power of democracy.
We voted No Thanks.
A democratic mandate.
Had the Yoons kept their promises they might be able to say that.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 05:54:19 pm
SNP election win 2015
SNP election win 2016
SNP election win 2017
SNP election win 2019
SNP election win 2021 to come
Pro-independence majority at Holyrood
Pro-independence majority of Scotland’s MPs at Westminster
The Claim of Right
International law
The UN Charter
Scottish public opinion
I could go on.
There will be a second referendum and unionists only have themselves to blame. It will be defeat from the jaws of their 2014 victory.
Post by: guest3 on October 20, 2020, 05:50:39 pm
And so should Wee Nippy "once in a generation"👍Well now the people are back. You should have kept your promises.It’s not a union if you can’t leave via democratic mandate.
Democracy will dictate the outcome. Scotland is likely to become independent. And unionists know it.
They will be welcome to put forward a reunification party for election to the independent Scottish Parliament. They can have a return to the UK in their manifesto and if they ever gain power they can have their own referendum.
Maybe then finally they will understand the power of democracy.
We voted No Thanks.
A democratic mandate.
Post by: guest17 on October 20, 2020, 05:46:59 pm
Well now the people are back. You should have kept your promises.It’s not a union if you can’t leave via democratic mandate.
Democracy will dictate the outcome. Scotland is likely to become independent. And unionists know it.
They will be welcome to put forward a reunification party for election to the independent Scottish Parliament. They can have a return to the UK in their manifesto and if they ever gain power they can have their own referendum.
Maybe then finally they will understand the power of democracy.
We voted No Thanks.
A democratic mandate.
Boris said No.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 05:44:32 pm
Well now the people are back. You should have kept your promises.It’s not a union if you can’t leave via democratic mandate.
Democracy will dictate the outcome. Scotland is likely to become independent. And unionists know it.
They will be welcome to put forward a reunification party for election to the independent Scottish Parliament. They can have a return to the UK in their manifesto and if they ever gain power they can have their own referendum.
Maybe then finally they will understand the power of democracy.
We voted No Thanks.
A democratic mandate.
Post by: guest17 on October 20, 2020, 05:31:40 pm
The UK isn’t one nation, and never has been. That is a matter of UK law. The UK government definition of the United Kingdom explicitly states this.It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
It's not a case of them wanting to keep us, it's a case of us all being part of one nation, which is the UK, and a minority of one part of the Nation trying to split off.
This minority are desperately trying to use opinion polls with loaded questions, large numbers of undecideds, and small samples during a time when support for the split is at it's highest for a number of factors which we have every reason to believe won't last forever, only 6 years after we'd already settled the issue with the Nationalists getting everything on their terms.
That's not how democracy works, you can't just jump in opportunistically and demand to leave whenever the spoofing polls show its suits for a wee while, especially when the Edinburgh agreement stated the result would be respected and the Nationalists claimed it'd once in a generation or once in a lifetime opportunity.
As well as this, the polls were consistently favourable to the Nats pre-referendum with the final result being way different, so we shouldn't really go by them should we? Especially one which seems to be an outlier compared to the rest, which only have a slight gap.
How could it possibly simultaneously be one nation and a union?
When there is a democratic mandate for a referendum in a constituent nation, there must be a referendum. That’s international law.
There will be a 2nd independence referendum. Unionists should be preparing their defence of their union. Every moment that they try to oppose Scottish democracy is a moment which damages their prospects.
The UK absolutely is a Nation. This Nation is a Union of Kingdoms or Countries depending on the context - hence the term 'Union'.
There is absolutely no mandate for a 2nd referendum, in fact there are mandates against, such as the Edinburgh agreement and 'once in a generation' lie.
Well put brother.
Post by: guest19 on October 20, 2020, 05:03:57 pm
The UK isn’t one nation, and never has been. That is a matter of UK law. The UK government definition of the United Kingdom explicitly states this.It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
It's not a case of them wanting to keep us, it's a case of us all being part of one nation, which is the UK, and a minority of one part of the Nation trying to split off.
This minority are desperately trying to use opinion polls with loaded questions, large numbers of undecideds, and small samples during a time when support for the split is at it's highest for a number of factors which we have every reason to believe won't last forever, only 6 years after we'd already settled the issue with the Nationalists getting everything on their terms.
That's not how democracy works, you can't just jump in opportunistically and demand to leave whenever the spoofing polls show its suits for a wee while, especially when the Edinburgh agreement stated the result would be respected and the Nationalists claimed it'd once in a generation or once in a lifetime opportunity.
As well as this, the polls were consistently favourable to the Nats pre-referendum with the final result being way different, so we shouldn't really go by them should we? Especially one which seems to be an outlier compared to the rest, which only have a slight gap.
How could it possibly simultaneously be one nation and a union?
When there is a democratic mandate for a referendum in a constituent nation, there must be a referendum. That’s international law.
There will be a 2nd independence referendum. Unionists should be preparing their defence of their union. Every moment that they try to oppose Scottish democracy is a moment which damages their prospects.
The UK absolutely is a Nation. This Nation is a Union of Kingdoms or Countries depending on the context - hence the term 'Union'.
There is absolutely no mandate for a 2nd referendum, in fact there are mandates against, such as the Edinburgh agreement and 'once in a generation' lie.
Post by: guest17 on October 20, 2020, 04:14:22 pm
The UK isn’t one nation, and never has been. That is a matter of UK law. The UK government definition of the United Kingdom explicitly states this.It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
It's not a case of them wanting to keep us, it's a case of us all being part of one nation, which is the UK, and a minority of one part of the Nation trying to split off.
This minority are desperately trying to use opinion polls with loaded questions, large numbers of undecideds, and small samples during a time when support for the split is at it's highest for a number of factors which we have every reason to believe won't last forever, only 6 years after we'd already settled the issue with the Nationalists getting everything on their terms.
That's not how democracy works, you can't just jump in opportunistically and demand to leave whenever the spoofing polls show its suits for a wee while, especially when the Edinburgh agreement stated the result would be respected and the Nationalists claimed it'd once in a generation or once in a lifetime opportunity.
As well as this, the polls were consistently favourable to the Nats pre-referendum with the final result being way different, so we shouldn't really go by them should we? Especially one which seems to be an outlier compared to the rest, which only have a slight gap.
How could it possibly simultaneously be one nation and a union?
When there is a democratic mandate for a referendum in a constituent nation, there must be a referendum. That’s international law.
There will be a 2nd independence referendum. Unionists should be preparing their defence of their union. Every moment that they try to oppose Scottish democracy is a moment which damages their prospects.
Where is this democratic mandate for a referendum?
Post by: guest17 on October 20, 2020, 04:12:58 pm
It’s not a union if you can’t leave via democratic mandate.
Democracy will dictate the outcome. Scotland is likely to become independent. And unionists know it.
They will be welcome to put forward a reunification party for election to the independent Scottish Parliament. They can have a return to the UK in their manifesto and if they ever gain power they can have their own referendum.
Maybe then finally they will understand the power of democracy.
We voted No Thanks.
A democratic mandate.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 04:02:27 pm
The UK isn’t one nation, and never has been. That is a matter of UK law. The UK government definition of the United Kingdom explicitly states this.It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
It's not a case of them wanting to keep us, it's a case of us all being part of one nation, which is the UK, and a minority of one part of the Nation trying to split off.
This minority are desperately trying to use opinion polls with loaded questions, large numbers of undecideds, and small samples during a time when support for the split is at it's highest for a number of factors which we have every reason to believe won't last forever, only 6 years after we'd already settled the issue with the Nationalists getting everything on their terms.
That's not how democracy works, you can't just jump in opportunistically and demand to leave whenever the spoofing polls show its suits for a wee while, especially when the Edinburgh agreement stated the result would be respected and the Nationalists claimed it'd once in a generation or once in a lifetime opportunity.
As well as this, the polls were consistently favourable to the Nats pre-referendum with the final result being way different, so we shouldn't really go by them should we? Especially one which seems to be an outlier compared to the rest, which only have a slight gap.
How could it possibly simultaneously be one nation and a union?
When there is a democratic mandate for a referendum in a constituent nation, there must be a referendum. That’s international law.
There will be a 2nd independence referendum. Unionists should be preparing their defence of their union. Every moment that they try to oppose Scottish democracy is a moment which damages their prospects.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 03:57:56 pm
Democracy will dictate the outcome. Scotland is likely to become independent. And unionists know it.
They will be welcome to put forward a reunification party for election to the independent Scottish Parliament. They can have a return to the UK in their manifesto and if they ever gain power they can have their own referendum.
Maybe then finally they will understand the power of democracy.
Post by: guest17 on October 20, 2020, 03:54:36 pm
It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
It's not a case of them wanting to keep us, it's a case of us all being part of one nation, which is the UK, and a minority of one part of the Nation trying to split off.
This minority are desperately trying to use opinion polls with loaded questions, large numbers of undecideds, and small samples during a time when support for the split is at it's highest for a number of factors which we have every reason to believe won't last forever, only 6 years after we'd already settled the issue with the Nationalists getting everything on their terms.
That's not how democracy works, you can't just jump in opportunistically and demand to leave whenever the spoofing polls show its suits for a wee while, especially when the Edinburgh agreement stated the result would be respected and the Nationalists claimed it'd once in a generation or once in a lifetime opportunity.
As well as this, the polls were consistently favourable to the Nats pre-referendum with the final result being way different, so we shouldn't really go by them should we? Especially one which seems to be an outlier compared to the rest, which only have a slight gap.
Succinct.
Post by: guest19 on October 20, 2020, 02:48:29 pm
It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
It's not a case of them wanting to keep us, it's a case of us all being part of one nation, which is the UK, and a minority of one part of the Nation trying to split off.
This minority are desperately trying to use opinion polls with loaded questions, large numbers of undecideds, and small samples during a time when support for the split is at it's highest for a number of factors which we have every reason to believe won't last forever, only 6 years after we'd already settled the issue with the Nationalists getting everything on their terms.
That's not how democracy works, you can't just jump in opportunistically and demand to leave whenever the spoofing polls show its suits for a wee while, especially when the Edinburgh agreement stated the result would be respected and the Nationalists claimed it'd once in a generation or once in a lifetime opportunity.
As well as this, the polls were consistently favourable to the Nats pre-referendum with the final result being way different, so we shouldn't really go by them should we? Especially one which seems to be an outlier compared to the rest, which only have a slight gap.
Post by: guest16 on October 20, 2020, 01:33:59 pm
It should be mate but these separatist idiots are hell bent on ruining our country. 😡🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧THE.PHUCKING.END.It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
We had a vote in 2014.
SNP set the question
SNP set the date
SNP picked who could vote
SNP said it was once in a generation/lifetime.
All to THEIR advantage.
THEY lost.
Respect the democratic will of the Scottish people.
Post by: guest3 on October 20, 2020, 01:23:50 pm
THE.PHUCKING.END.It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
We had a vote in 2014.
SNP set the question
SNP set the date
SNP picked who could vote
SNP said it was once in a generation/lifetime.
All to THEIR advantage.
THEY lost.
Respect the democratic will of the Scottish people.
Post by: guest17 on October 20, 2020, 01:11:16 pm
It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
We had a vote in 2014.
SNP set the question
SNP set the date
SNP picked who could vote
SNP said it was once in a generation/lifetime.
All to THEIR advantage.
THEY lost.
Respect the democratic will of the Scottish people.
Post by: guest17 on October 20, 2020, 12:53:00 pm
Get back in your box about independence and start running the country properly. Sort out the mess the very incompetent snp have causedBoris says "no" 🙂
The snats need to get back in their box and shut up 🇬🇧
Before May there will be the Scottish elections let's see what happens next.
Going back in the box isn't an option.
There's too many of us now to go back in our box .
Anyway independence is our right .
Like many other countries that have become independent there's nothing wrong with that it's normal.
Like Fiji?
Post by: guest16 on October 20, 2020, 12:52:05 pm
So do you.It's not an option, it's a certainty.Boris says "no" 🙂
The snats need to get back in their box and shut up 🇬🇧
Before May there will be the Scottish elections let's see what happens next.
Going back in the box isn't an option.
You don’t believe that. You need to face up to things.
Boris says no 🙂🇬🇧
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 12:48:33 pm
It's not an option, it's a certainty.Boris says "no" 🙂
The snats need to get back in their box and shut up 🇬🇧
Before May there will be the Scottish elections let's see what happens next.
Going back in the box isn't an option.
You don’t believe that. You need to face up to things.
Post by: guest3 on October 20, 2020, 12:46:50 pm
It's not an option, it's a certainty.Boris says "no" 🙂
The snats need to get back in their box and shut up 🇬🇧
Before May there will be the Scottish elections let's see what happens next.
Going back in the box isn't an option.
Post by: guest16 on October 20, 2020, 12:46:40 pm
So you do not want the snp to start running the country properly?No.Get back in your box about independence and start running the country properly. Sort out the mess the very incompetent snp have causedBoris says "no" 🙂
The snats need to get back in their box and shut up 🇬🇧
Before May there will be the Scottish elections let's see what happens next.
Going back in the box isn't an option.
Okay then 🇬🇧
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 12:43:59 pm
No.Get back in your box about independence and start running the country properly. Sort out the mess the very incompetent snp have causedBoris says "no" 🙂
The snats need to get back in their box and shut up 🇬🇧
Before May there will be the Scottish elections let's see what happens next.
Going back in the box isn't an option.
Post by: guest16 on October 20, 2020, 12:40:15 pm
It is not your rightGet back in your box about independence and start running the country properly. Sort out the mess the very incompetent snp have causedBoris says "no" 🙂
The snats need to get back in their box and shut up 🇬🇧
Before May there will be the Scottish elections let's see what happens next.
Going back in the box isn't an option.
There's too many of us now to go back in our box .
Anyway independence is our right .
Like many other countries that have become independent there's nothing wrong with that it's normal.
Post by: Buc on October 20, 2020, 12:29:03 pm
Get back in your box about independence and start running the country properly. Sort out the mess the very incompetent snp have causedBoris says "no" 🙂
The snats need to get back in their box and shut up 🇬🇧
Before May there will be the Scottish elections let's see what happens next.
Going back in the box isn't an option.
There's too many of us now to go back in our box .
Anyway independence is our right .
Like many other countries that have become independent there's nothing wrong with that it's normal.
Post by: guest16 on October 20, 2020, 12:15:23 pm
Get back in your box about independence and start running the country properly. Sort out the mess the very incompetent snp have causedBoris says "no" 🙂
The snats need to get back in their box and shut up 🇬🇧
Before May there will be the Scottish elections let's see what happens next.
Going back in the box isn't an option.
Post by: Buc on October 20, 2020, 12:07:13 pm
Boris says "no" 🙂
The snats need to get back in their box and shut up 🇬🇧
Before May there will be the Scottish elections let's see what happens next.
Going back in the box isn't an option.
Post by: guest16 on October 20, 2020, 11:46:15 am
The snats need to get back in their box and shut up 🇬🇧
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 11:44:10 am
"Large proportion" ;DA large proportion of media voices in England, a large proportion of the electorate in England and a fringe group of extreme unionists loonballs in Scotland say that.You continue to peddle this burden pish. Who said we were a burden?It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
They say they pay for our uni fees and our prescriptions etc .
Not me that says that .
Who are ‘they’?
Next!
How large are we talking?
71.3% of the adult population.
Post by: guest3 on October 20, 2020, 11:34:45 am
"Large proportion" ;DA large proportion of media voices in England, a large proportion of the electorate in England and a fringe group of extreme unionists loonballs in Scotland say that.You continue to peddle this burden pish. Who said we were a burden?It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
They say they pay for our uni fees and our prescriptions etc .
Not me that says that .
Who are ‘they’?
Next!
How large are we talking?
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 11:21:31 am
A large proportion of media voices in England, a large proportion of the electorate in England and a fringe group of extreme unionists loonballs in Scotland say that.You continue to peddle this burden pish. Who said we were a burden?It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
They say they pay for our uni fees and our prescriptions etc .
Not me that says that .
Who are ‘they’?
Next!
Post by: guest3 on October 20, 2020, 11:18:25 am
Who says they pay for our uni fees and prescriptions?You continue to peddle this burden pish. Who said we were a burden?It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
They say they pay for our uni fees and our prescriptions etc .
Not me that says that .
Post by: guest17 on October 20, 2020, 11:16:33 am
You continue to peddle this burden pish. Who said we were a burden?It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
They say they pay for our uni fees and our prescriptions etc .
Not me that says that .
Who are ‘they’?
Post by: Buc on October 20, 2020, 11:13:09 am
You continue to peddle this burden pish. Who said we were a burden?It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
They say they pay for our uni fees and our prescriptions etc .
Not me that says that .
Post by: guest3 on October 20, 2020, 11:08:59 am
You continue to peddle this burden pish. Who said we were a burden?It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
Post by: Buc on October 20, 2020, 11:03:41 am
It’s not looking good for the union. The advice the British have sought and are receiving is that a flat No to another referendum is not workable and that solutions are as follows:
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Agree with that Pete.
Just wonder why the are desperate to keep us ?
If we were a burden then it makes good business sense to let us go.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 10:55:50 am
1. An offer of much increased powers to the Scottish Parliament
2. Begging the EU to close the door on and independent Scotland being part of the single market. Good luck with that! 😆
Tough times for the Unionist cause.
Post by: guest19 on October 20, 2020, 10:26:59 am
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-10-19/u-k-s-tories-start-war-gaming-to-stop-scottish-independence?__twitter_impression=true
Please read the whole article and tell me the union as we know it is not doomed.
The Union as we know it is not doomed.
All it shows is that the Tories are getting their act together on the basis of stats from spoofing opinion polls which are commissioned by people with an agenda, by telephone, with large numbers of undecideds, with dodgy questions, at a time when remainers are emotionally charged, with Sturgeon getting free PR via virus-posturing and with the fundamental issues not being debated beforehand.
Post by: PeterGrant on October 20, 2020, 09:45:09 am
Please read the whole article and tell me the union as we know it is not doomed.